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Thread: Anoxic Filters: Updates from anyone?

  1. #11
    MCA
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    Very likely

  2. #12
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    I am not an advocate for anoxic bio-filtration, I am more of an eccentric (you know like people who keep koi!) bordering on an armchair mad scientist. Anaerobic media is not an issue with the biocenosis basket as implemented in Novak’s design: there are no anaerobic spaces. We are all familiar with the smell associated with anaerobic processes, there is none of that. Each of the roughly 10” cubes of clay are surrounded by aerated water. One of the things that makes this implementation of bio-filtration conceptually, fundamentally, different (in addition to using anoxic bacteria to process nitrate) is that it functions not by flow through (as with pad, brushes, beads, TT) but by diffusion. The ammonia and oxygen do not flow into the clay they diffuse into and through the layers driven by a concentration gradient and the electromotive impetus of the laterlite core. In the end it is bio-filtration we want, and if you build an anoxic bio-filter in accordance with Novak’s design it will provide bio-filtration (and the aesthetics of the planted chamber is often superior to a black box).

  3. #13
    Oyagoi
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    wondering what would happen i you used chicken grit (oyster shell kind)
    if you get the benefit of anoxic filter plus the calcium benefit

  4. #14
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    ...Absent prohibitive water costs, I would not adopt the anoxic method even if a technique for effectively implementing it was developed. I consider nitrate a negative, albeit comparatively harmless; but as important in my mind is that nitrate serves as a marker for the build-up of contaminants of all sorts. I cannot test for hormones, all the byproducts of decomposition, metals, leachings of plasticizers and such. If through water changes I keep nitrate low, I figure I am keeping whatever else there is similarly low. But, then, I'm kinda an old guy set in his ways who has great faith in water changes.
    The idea of yet another 'filtering' layer in the ammonia/nitrogen/nitrates daisy chain is certainly a fascinating concept. I'm certainly no water quality chemist or have near the koi keeping experience you all do, but I just wonder about the time, money and effort required to take this to a plausible, workable solution for nitrates, given that water changes achieve the same objective and so much more.

    I would think all the trace metals and minerals that fresh water introduces to replenish these minute but vital nutrients would, alone, make water changes all the more attractive as the alternative of choice. Unless your source water is exceedingly 'bad', it would seem these additional elements are important to the creation of what JR, I seem to recall, used to refer to as 'living water'. (JR, JR, wherefore art thou JR?)

    And you aren't 'old school' at all in the faith you put into water changes, MikeM. Every successful koi keeper I know, young or old, preaches it like it's the 11th commandment of Moses, and the first commandment in koi husbandry.

  5. #15
    MCA
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    If fresh water is so expensive or such bad quality as to be prohibitive, then I suggest the owner should give up outdoor fish pond keeping and go smaller scale with indoor aquariums where they can provide high quality fresh water on a regular basis. Convert the outdoor ponds to water gardens or water features where water quality is not so important.

  6. #16
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    If fresh water is so expensive or such bad quality as to be prohibitive, then I suggest the owner should give up outdoor fish pond keeping and go smaller scale with indoor aquariums where they can provide high quality fresh water on a regular basis. Convert the outdoor ponds to water gardens or water features where water quality is not so important.
    LOL.... That is far too practical, MCA. You've forgotten the 'if I want it, I deserve it' philosophy of today's times.

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    Would the use of bio rings in filter chambers , with its hole in center where o2 may be low/ non existent , be workable as an anoxic filter?
    Not meant to replace water change but rather reduce water changes.

    ts

  8. #18
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lau Teck Seng View Post
    Would the use of bio rings in filter chambers , with its hole in center where o2 may be low/ non existent , be workable as an anoxic filter?
    Not meant to replace water change but rather reduce water changes.

    ts
    No. Bio rings would have too oxygenated an environment.

  9. #19
    Tosai
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    Cool

    Those biocenosis baskets for anoxic reminds me of my potted plants ( 8) in 1.5ft containers. They contain clay mixed with gravel and crushed corals. As the plants fluorished , the old leaves sheds and clogging the waterway which works as waterfall. The nitrates was abt 40-80 , was pretty happy with that. Koi growth was good and have always attributed the "low" nitrate to plants in my 60tonner. Problem is too much work cleaning after the plants , pruning and clearing dead leaves. Had to give up the plants waterway and just depends on water changes now. Now the nitrate runs at 20-40 , with higher water changes % ( 20% weekly , used to be 10-15% with plants) , but much less work
    The improvement in kois shine and skin and shiroji is noticeable.
    Was wondering now , was it the plants or the baskets working as anoxic filter that worked to keep the nitrate "low" or none of the above , only water changes doing its job

    ts

  10. #20
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    You and I are different on what we consider 'low' nitrates... I say less than 10ppm is 'low', 20-40 being high, and above 40 as being cause for alarm. But that's just me...

    I believe you newer 'low' nitrates are the result of the water exchanges. And the original plant nitrate level was just what the balance ended up being, not necessarily the result of any denitrification by the potted plants themselves. Depending on the leaf litter amount I would question whether the plants did more harm than good. Or maybe even indifferent, having no increase or decrease effect of nitrate concentration.

    I have a plant growing from my shower via aeroponics. I often wonder if they are helping or hindering the balance. BTW- I have low nitrates- as in zero on a hobbyist test kit...but only because I change a lot of water and have a constant flowthrough...

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