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Thread: Anoxic Filters: Updates from anyone?

  1. #21
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lau Teck Seng View Post
    Those biocenosis baskets for anoxic reminds me of my potted plants ( 8) in 1.5ft containers. They contain clay mixed with gravel and crushed corals. As the plants fluorished , the old leaves sheds and clogging the waterway which works as waterfall. The nitrates was abt 40-80 , was pretty happy with that. Koi growth was good and have always attributed the "low" nitrate to plants in my 60tonner. Problem is too much work cleaning after the plants , pruning and clearing dead leaves. Had to give up the plants waterway and just depends on water changes now. Now the nitrate runs at 20-40 , with higher water changes % ( 20% weekly , used to be 10-15% with plants) , but much less work
    The improvement in kois shine and skin and shiroji is noticeable.
    Was wondering now , was it the plants or the baskets working as anoxic filter that worked to keep the nitrate "low" or none of the above , only water changes doing its job

    ts
    I think it was the increase in water changes that gave improved nitrate levels. Having plants does increase the work, if the primary goal is the koi.

  2. #22
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    I would encourage anyone with questions about anoxic filtration to google it and just read the ample free info at mankesanke. The baskets have a particular size and composition for specific reasons, the various aspects of Novak’s design and the reasons, chemistry and physics are there to see and accept or question. Plants generally do not remove nitrates (they do love ammonia though), very few plants are willing to expend the considerable energy required for little gain (this is also in the anoxic write up).
    ricshaw likes this.

  3. #23
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    I spent most of the evening reading about this Anoxic Filter mumbo-jumbo and found it quite interesting. The first thing that came to mind was the mess that comes with plant growth in the baskets or those garden pond type set ups. A few of the articles say that having plants are not required in these systems to work and I'm not sure how the nitrates are lost (reduced) in the system. I have to admit that after finally setting up my first little test pond for a few months now, I am staggered at the amount of water I am wasting on water changes. Water is not to expensive here, but the sewer charges ($300/month: related to our water use) is absolutely killing me. I don't have a really nice yard or garden to use the drained water so it just gets sucked back into my front yard grass. This alone will definitely keep me from building my 20K gallon dream pond. To get more re-use out of the wasted water, I started implementing my first 300 gallon Aquaponics system with a couple large grow beds for vegetables and herbs. Maybe I can use a test anoxic filter system as a part of a combined Hydroponics/Aquaponics system to get a higher percentage of water re-use. I'm hoping to feel better about the water changes and can count on some nice fresh vegetables to eat

  4. #24
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Akai-San, remember that the water changes also reduce pheromones in the pond. Pheromones are growth inhibitors. I change a lot of water because of this fact, not just because of nitrogenous compounds.

  5. #25
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    AG no need to fear the pheromones.

  6. #26
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Why do you say that, Rob? I have been laboring under the understanding that buildup of these and other biological chemicals in an enclosed and unnatural system were very significant limiters of not only growth, but also proper conformation and skin quality. I will often tell people that if filtration upgrades are not feasible, heavier water changes/flow through are the best water quality enhancements for the least money possible.

  7. #27
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    From everything I've read on anoxic filtration, there is one item which doesn't get elaborated on - how fine really one needs the pre-filtration to be. Yet I feel it is a key to the success of a working anoxic system. My filter-brush mechanical filtration system allows suspended solids to go through. Proof is in the need to clean the biofilter mats, not only of dead bacteria, but of solids that have gone through the filter brushes. And I had made sure the filter brushes are as tightly packed horinzontally and have made sure the brushes touch the chamber bottom- there is no way for water to pass thru the easy way.

    Let's say I took a leap of faith, and removed the biomats from the two biofilter chambers and replaced them with anoxic filter baskets. Let's say it worked and cycled quickly. I would still have to monitor my water values carefully. As I have to deal with the uncertainty of my filter baskets getting plugged up with solids. Once that happens, the baskets aren't anoxic anymore, but anaerobic. Then I have to remove each of the filter baskets, and clean them.

    How many baskets there are, and you can imagine the work involved. It would be a failed system if it requires a lot of work to maintain. And I would not enjoying koi keeping for the tedious work this would involve. It's sayonara koi keeping.
    Have a nice day!

    Does anyone know what is the maximum micron of mechanical pre-filtration needed for an anoxic filtration system to work reliably with reasonable maintenance? Will a filter brush system really work in an anoxic system? I am thinking that if I can't afford or cannot retrofit a rotary drum filter, I won't try an anoxic system at all.

    Anyone?

  8. #28
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    Ricshaw ,you are spot on !
    Old style box filters, 35 years ago, were always designed where you added O2 AN EARLY stage of the filter, to aid the aerobic bacteria.

    The simple run down was :

    1st settlement chamber to remove solids
    2nd mesh filter or sponge to remove smaller solids or floating solids.
    AN AIR STONE WOULD BE PLACED ON THE CLEAN SIDE OF THIS.
    3rd chamber fed from the top , so that you could still access and clean off any debris
    4th chamber fed from the bottom
    and so on using as many chambers as you like,
    Before returning the water to the pond you would have at least 2 chambers TWICE THE DEPTH of the other chambers, one fed from the top one the bottom

    The first group of chambers could be exposed to the air at the surface
    The last deeper ones should be covered

    These are to encourage ANAEROBIC Bacteria , they should be regarded as polishing units , adding to your other filters .
    You should then add O2 to the water before returning to the pond.

    You do get Anaerobic bacteria in filters but if you are getting it in the middle of your AEROBIC ( OXYGEN LOVING ) bacteria your next chamber will be less efficient.

    They both have their place, but for them to work you need to keep them separate.

    Brian

  9. #29
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    Does anyone know what is the maximum micron of mechanical pre-filtration needed for an anoxic filtration system to work reliably with reasonable maintenance? Will a filter brush system really work in an anoxic system? I am thinking that if I can't afford or cannot retrofit a rotary drum filter, I won't try an anoxic system at all.

    Anyone?
    At this time the anoxic filter concept has not been proved in practical application. You are welcome to do the experiments to figure out the answers to the questions, such as the one you have asked. Nearly everyone is waiting for someone else to do that hard work. I have to credit RobF for his willingness to venture into the concept. It's his curious mind that made him do it.

  10. #30
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    It would be nice to do a proof-of-concept in the smaller scale of an aquarium. But then, if it's not been done in an aquarium, that would create a lot of doubt.

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