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Thread: Chlorine Gill Burn;What more can I do to help my 18 yr old KOI.. PLS HELP

  1. #11
    Tosai
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    Aug 2013
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    My apologies for the lack of specifics yesterday. Before I introduced the hose water to the pond I added 8 oz of API Stress Coat which claims to make tap water safe removes chlorine, chloramines and adds aloe vera for healing and replaces slime coat. 8 oz is to treat 480 gallons, which is roughly the amount of a water change that I intended. When I discovered my horrible mistake, the pond probably filled beyond it's capacity (1200) gallons. I then added 33 oz of API Aquarium Salt, which was to treat 220 gallons. About an hour later I added another 8 oz of Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Condition, which is to detoxifies chlorine and chloramines and adds a slim coat. I intended to go to the pond supply house here in town this morning to purchase the Chlor AM X and add enough to treat the 1200 gallons. From the advice from all of you, I understand that I need to manage the Ammonia and that Chlor AM X will do just that, so I will add that today. I have lower one of the submersible pumps to get the water moving in the lower section of the pond. Peaches the male died overnight, his mate is swimming still and it's been 20 hours since she was subjected to this toxic water. I cannot tell you all how much your advice and kind support has meant to me. Thank you,

  2. #12
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Shirl, just one other bit of advise that falls into the 'down-the-road' category, you may want to purchase some sodium thiosulphate in the near future. Some of the additives you are using such as Chor AM X and NovAqua are quite appropriate under your special current circumstances. In fact, these are often used to treat the fresh water at koi shows. But for every day water changes, to neutralize the chlorine in your source water, all you need is 'ST'. It's a naturally occurring 'salt' harvested from hot springs, and is very forgiving in dosage -- meaning hard to over dose. Best of all it's inexpensive. It comes available in a salt-crystal form or even powder at many fine koi stores on the internet.

    And while you're at it, should you need to actually use salt (sodium chloride) in your pond again, plain old water softener salt sold at any big-box hardware store in 40 lb. bags is fine, and way cheaper than 'aquarium salt' sold at the pet stores. Just be sure you get the salt that is 99+% pure salt -- absolutely no additives. The bags are well marked.

    I know these fish are your pets and we wish you all the best in their recovery. But for future reference, there's no need to spend big bucks on some of these 'koi labeled' additives.

  3. #13
    Tosai
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    Aug 2013
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    Newbury Park, Calif. USA
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    I wish that I had met all of you some time ago. I've learned so much and am ever so grateful. The future is looking brighter as I am now much better equipped with knowledge, supplies and this awesome KOI support network.

  4. #14
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirl View Post
    My apologies for the lack of specifics yesterday. Before I introduced the hose water to the pond I added 8 oz of API Stress Coat which claims to make tap water safe removes chlorine, chloramines and adds aloe vera for healing and replaces slime coat. 8 oz is to treat 480 gallons, which is roughly the amount of a water change that I intended. When I discovered my horrible mistake, the pond probably filled beyond it's capacity (1200) gallons. I then added 33 oz of API Aquarium Salt, which was to treat 220 gallons. About an hour later I added another 8 oz of Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Condition, which is to detoxifies chlorine and chloramines and adds a slim coat. I intended to go to the pond supply house here in town this morning to purchase the Chlor AM X and add enough to treat the 1200 gallons. From the advice from all of you, I understand that I need to manage the Ammonia and that Chlor AM X will do just that, so I will add that today. I have lower one of the submersible pumps to get the water moving in the lower section of the pond. Peaches the male died overnight, his mate is swimming still and it's been 20 hours since she was subjected to this toxic water. I cannot tell you all how much your advice and kind support has meant to me. Thank you,
    My concern is that you should have added enough "conditioner" that removes chlorine and chloramines for 1200 gallons IMMEDIATELY after discovering your mistake. The first 8 oz. of API Stress Coat does not count if the pond was over flowing. Waiting for the Chlor AM X is too late!

    Did you?

  5. #15
    Tosai
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    Newbury Park, Calif. USA
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    I used all that I had and raced to the store to get more "conditioner" (not Chlor AM X as I did not know of this product at that time), then I was told by the manufacturer of the condistion to not add any more than another 8 0z as the slime coat additive would aggravate the gills. The store that sells Chlor AM X just opened here at 11:30 a.m Pacific, and so I off to purchase that and add that as well. I surely hope that it will Help somewhat, as that is what I have read for others... it cannot hurt is the impression I get.

  6. #16
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirl View Post
    I used all that I had and raced to the store to get more "conditioner" (not Chlor AM X as I did not know of this product at that time), then I was told by the manufacturer of the condistion to not add any more than another 8 0z as the slime coat additive would aggravate the gills. The store that sells Chlor AM X just opened here at 11:30 a.m Pacific, and so I off to purchase that and add that as well. I surely hope that it will Help somewhat, as that is what I have read for others... it cannot hurt is the impression I get.
    So I am still getting the impression that you did not take care of removing ALL the chlorine or chloramines, which if true, is your second big mistake.
    8 oz. of Kordon NovAqua Plus Water Condition only treats about 480 gallons of water.

    The FIRST concern is removing ALL the chlorine or chloramines.

    Did you tell the manufacture how many gallons of chlorinated (or is it chloramine treated?) water you had? If they said slime coat additive would aggravate the gills, think how much chlorine (or chloramines) would aggravate burned gills!

    The slime coat additives and salt come AFTER removing ALL the chlorine or chloramines.

    You need to keep some sodium thiosulfate for removing chlorine or chloramines (with instructions on how to use it) handy for emergencies. ChlorAM-X will work and is better (but more expensive).

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    Aug 2013
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    ChlorAM-X was not available at 3 different pond stores I am ordering in now on-line. At the recommendation of one store, I purchased AmQuel Plus which removes Chlorine, Chloramines, Ammonia, reduces Nitrates and Nitrites. However, it also says is may lower the Oxygen levels. The pond is very well aerated, waterfall and 2 auxillory pumps moving 700 gallons an hour. My question is it's been 18 hours since the toxins went into the water, should I still dose the AmQuel Plus or just let the gases dissipate and stop adding all of these chemicals?

  8. #18
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirl View Post
    My question is it's been 18 hours since the toxins went into the water, should I still dose the AmQuel Plus or just let the gases dissipate and stop adding all of these chemicals?
    The toxins are chlorine or chloramine.

    Do you know if your tap water was treated with chlorine or chloramines? It makes a difference.

    Chlorine will dissipate by itself. The reason municipalities use chloramines (chlorine + ammonia) to treat water is because it is more stable and does not dissipate quickly.

    I would like to add that most of us DO NOT use "conditioners" (salt and slime coat additives) when doing pond water changes. All that is needed is a chemical like sodium thiosulfate which removes chlorine. IMO The reason salt and slime coat additives are added to de-chlor is de-chlor by itself is cheap, so the additives help and justify the additional cost.

    If your tap water has chloramines, then you can use a little more sodium thiosulfate to break the chlorine and ammonia bond and neutralize the chlorine. You can't really over dose with sodium thiosulfate. After the chlorine is removed, your biological filter can remove the ammonia.
    OR
    You can use ChlorAm-X wich will take care of the chlorine and ammonia in the chloramine.

    I have chloramine treated tap water and use both sodium thiosulfate and/or ChlorAm-X.

    Corrections and comments welcomed.

  9. #19
    Tosai
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    Thank you Ricshaw. I just printed out the Water Quality Results and yes my tap water contains Chloramines. 1.79 ppm. Therefore, inasmuch as all I was able to find today was the AmQuel which reduces the Chloramine, and I DO NOT have ChlorAm X yet, you are recommending that I use the AmQuel to reduce the Chloramine right now. I tested the Nitrate and Ammonia levels and the are within the safe range right now.

  10. #20
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirl View Post
    Thank you Ricshaw. I just printed out the Water Quality Results and yes my tap water contains Chloramines. 1.79 ppm. Therefore, inasmuch as all I was able to find today was the AmQuel which reduces the Chloramine, and I DO NOT have ChlorAm X yet, you are recommending that I use the AmQuel to reduce the Chloramine right now. I tested the Nitrate and Ammonia levels and the are within the safe range right now.
    Yes, because I am getting the impression that you did not take care of removing ALL of the chloramines.

    BTW: AmQuel is comparable to ChlorAm X.

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