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Thread: Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates

  1. #1
    Sansai
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    Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates

    A koi dealer in our country is asking USD 700 to USD 900 for the tosais, pictured in the attachment . They are in the range of 32 to 38 cm . The kohaku with the menkaburi , has however been mentioned at USD 280.

    My spirits have dampened !

    I was initially thinking of buying a few of these koi and then rearing them up to 75-80 cm in the next 3-4 years , selling them hence, by which a part of the financial challenge of our pond expense , would get subsidised , and my fears of closing down this beautiful hobby would remain distant ! I know there are above cut Tosais costing USD 10,000 to USD 20,000 , but they are like the shooting stars , which gets only seen in its rarity , being called a Tategoi.

    Any impressions on these koi with respect to their value , will help me learn in understanding koi, and in making informed decisions. Please do let me know of your thoughts .

    Thanks
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_kohaku_38bu.jpg   Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_kohaku_37bu.jpg   Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_maruten_kohaku_36bu.jpg   Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_kohaku_36bu.jpg   Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_showa_38bu.jpg  

    Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-hoshikin_kohaku_32bu.jpg  

  2. #2
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    Hi You have mentioned ASKING PRICE and selling at !
    The market will show how much they are worth !
    He is trading on the name /blood line genetics.
    The issue is value not cost !
    THEY ARE NICE FISH ,but nothing exceptional ! I do not know the U.S. market so don't know if they are good or poor value for money.

    Remember a dealer has ON COSTS and needs to make a profit !

    Brian

  3. #3
    Tosai Edith Fleischman's Avatar
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    nice fish ...but I don't know if I would pay that much.....my most expensive fish was 6 us dollars.....my koi are pets....part of my family..not commodities to make money.....Are these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-snapshot7.jpgAre these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-snapshot6.jpgAre these Tosais , well worth their asking rates-snapshot9.jpg

  4. #4
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tora Bora View Post
    A koi dealer in our country is asking USD 700 to USD 900 for the tosais, pictured in the attachment . They are in the range of 32 to 38 cm . The kohaku with the menkaburi , has however been mentioned at USD 280.

    My spirits have dampened !

    I was initially thinking of buying a few of these koi and then rearing them up to 75-80 cm in the next 3-4 years , selling them hence, by which a part of the financial challenge of our pond expense , would get subsidised , and my fears of closing down this beautiful hobby would remain distant ! I know there are above cut Tosais costing USD 10,000 to USD 20,000 , but they are like the shooting stars , which gets only seen in its rarity , being called a Tategoi.

    Any impressions on these koi with respect to their value , will help me learn in understanding koi, and in making informed decisions. Please do let me know of your thoughts .

    Thanks
    Greatest lesson I ever learned in koi keeping was never pay more for a koi than you are willing to lose. If you can't afford to spend $700 on a koi and then have it jump out of the pond tomorrow and die then don't buy. The second greatest lesson I ever learned was don't buy a koi thinking you can raise it and make a profit off it. Are they worth the asking price? I don't know because I don't know the market in India but I do know at that price I would want to see them in person unless they were being sold by a very reputable dealer that I personally knew and therefore knew that they would not be overcharging me.
    yerrag and Tora Bora like this.
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  5. #5
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Well said. I recently took off my pond net and told myself "Que sera sera"- whatever will be, will be. I may lose a koi but now I don't lose enjoying my kois. The one that jumps out will be mourned, but I am none the poorer for it.
    Tora Bora likes this.

  6. #6
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tora Bora View Post
    A koi dealer in our country is asking USD 700 to USD 900 for the tosais, pictured in the attachment . They are in the range of 32 to 38 cm . The kohaku with the menkaburi , has however been mentioned at USD 280.

    My spirits have dampened !

    I was initially thinking of buying a few of these koi and then rearing them up to 75-80 cm in the next 3-4 years , selling them hence, by which a part of the financial challenge of our pond expense , would get subsidised , and my fears of closing down this beautiful hobby would remain distant ! I know there are above cut Tosais costing USD 10,000 to USD 20,000 , but they are like the shooting stars , which gets only seen in its rarity , being called a Tategoi.

    Any impressions on these koi with respect to their value , will help me learn in understanding koi, and in making informed decisions. Please do let me know of your thoughts .

    Thanks
    Hoshikin Jumbo tosai kohakus comes in different price range depending on the sex, pattern, skin quality and body.
    I have bought a three step Hoshikin female jumbo tosai with certificate last year for around 650 dollars. It was suppose to cost more but the dealer discounted her because she was being passed over by others who did not like the open window in the patttern. I liked her because she was a proven grower and very thick pink beni.(she had grown to 54cm after staying for five months in the dealers holding pond from just 36 cm). She is now at 72 cm I think after staying in my pond for eight months. Her beni is still very thick and has always catched up with growth and does not show any sign of weakening at this point. Time will tell though whether she can retain her beauty once she reaches jumbohood. With regards to the open window I will do some plastic surgery on her to improve her pattern once she reaches 80cm.

    However, not all hoshikin of the same batch turned out well as I know someone who picked first that had beni issue( lots of secondary hi came out) although growth was still good.

    On the same batch of jumbo tosai there were also a lot of male jumbo hoshikin tosais that were sold for around 250 dollars equivalent.

    Recently dealer also sold several female hoshikin jumbo tosai at an even higher quality and price(double than before). Aside from better pattern they looked more more powerful and impressive even at tosai.

    Since you wish to grow them to jumbohood in a few years, get only females and forget the males. If you wish to sell them at 65cm then maybe male with very nice pattern is ok. I cannot tell the sex from the pictures hou posted but I surmised most of these are male because logic dictates a maruten female three step with nice body conformation will not fetch at price that low quoted by the dealer. Of course I can be wrong and you can be lucky.

  7. #7
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edith Fleischman View Post
    nice fish ...but I don't know if I would pay that much.....my most expensive fish was 6 us dollars.....my koi are pets....part of my family..not commodities to make money.....Click image for larger version. 

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    I completely agree with your sentiments Edith, " Koi are part of a family and not commodities to make money on " . The moment the money angle comes into picture , the whole effort and perception to the hobby brings on a flavour of monotony , soaked in a curry of base emotions . Anyways i hope that we dont have fill up our pond with soil , and make it a thing of the past .

    Sanjay

  8. #8
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edith Fleischman View Post
    nice fish ...but I don't know if I would pay that much.....my most expensive fish was 6 us dollars.....my koi are



    pets....part of my family..not commodities to make money.....Click image for larger version. 

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    Edith you have got true value for the money you spent! HAPPY HEALTH FISH that you love !
    I assume you are on these pages to do right by your Koi.
    Some one who is truly happy with what they have ! The Shinto buddhist would be very proud of you !
    You are in a good place, enough is a feast and all that !
    Brian

  9. #9
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    Hoshikin Jumbo tosai kohakus comes in different price range depending on the sex, pattern, skin quality and body.
    I have bought a three step Hoshikin female jumbo tosai with certificate last year for around 650 dollars. It was suppose to cost more but the dealer discounted her because she was being passed over by others who did not like the open window in the patttern. I liked her because she was a proven grower and very thick pink beni.(she had grown to 54cm after staying for five months in the dealers holding pond from just 36 cm). She is now at 72 cm I think after staying in my pond for eight months. Her beni is still very thick and has always catched up with growth and does not show any sign of weakening at this point. Time will tell though whether she can retain her beauty once she reaches jumbohood. With regards to the open window I will do some plastic surgery on her to improve her pattern once she reaches 80cm.

    However, not all hoshikin of the same batch turned out well as I know someone who picked first that had beni issue( lots of secondary hi came out) although growth was still good.

    On the same batch of jumbo tosai there were also a lot of male jumbo hoshikin tosais that were sold for around 250 dollars equivalent.

    Recently dealer also sold several female hoshikin jumbo tosai at an even higher quality and price(double than before). Aside from better pattern they looked more more powerful and impressive even at tosai.

    Since you wish to grow them to jumbohood in a few years, get only females and forget the males. If you wish to sell them at 65cm then maybe male with very nice pattern is ok. I cannot tell the sex from the pictures hou posted but I surmised most of these are male because logic dictates a maruten female three step with nice body conformation will not fetch at price that low quoted by the dealer. Of course I can be wrong and you can be lucky.
    Thanks Sacicu .

    Its the rasing and keeping of koi that really engrosess me with this ever surprising and challenging hobby . Although cosmetic surgery , is a pass , that i happily let go . Like for some conditioning water by making it soft and managing very low levels of KH and zero levels of GH is a nice way of blooming up their koi. There is the other half who completely oppose this method . In the end , its what you get out of the koi , without harming them is that what matters.

    Best regards,
    Sanjay

  10. #10
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Thought Jim's responses were pretty sage.

    I think chances are better looking at sanke or showa than kohaku. the ones pictured to me as they grow will have more of a flowery pattrn with little strength or substance. At least with sumimono you can always be happy about a late appearance of sumi to fulfill a pattern.

    I suggest you look at your purchases as an investment in YOUR education. getting a master's in koi selection can be spendy

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