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Thread: Koi Breeding Project

  1. #11
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    If a person lowered their sights, they'd do better competeing against gosanke bred by professionals. Kohaku is about the most competitive class that you could pick. Shusui,bekko, yamabuki, a little easier to place in. I got a Reserve GC with a 5 year effort of backyard breeding with my #2 home bred Kumonryu. I don't know who was more surprised, myself that the judge felt a doutsu deserved such a high placement or the judge when he found out it was American bred. It's a memory that I will long cherish. So i wish you both well in your efforts....
    Dick - nicely done with kumonryu. I hear what you're saying about me choosing to focus on kohaku; and by the way - you could well be right. Here's the back story on some of my decision making on variety. When I started planning the project, I decided to stick off go sanke (and shiro utsuri) for pretty much the reason you (and a few others on this thread) have pointed out. the first koi I bought with the intention of breeding from was a shusui and 3 kujaku's. infact, this shusui is right up there with some of the most technically good fish I own. And then - when I started spending on the setup, and getting stuck in myself I basically thought to myself that I was going to such a lot of effort expense that it didnt feel right that I was not going to breed some of my more favoured varieties. At around that time, an exhibitor on the show circuit in the UK who I know gave me the option of buying a kohaku and shiro female that were far better quality than I could afford, but each had a compromise that meant he wanted to move them on. At that point - I decided to buy those fish, and ditch the idea that I would avoid go sanke and shiro - and instead have a go at a few varieties, and then re-jig my koi collection around the varieties I wanted to continue with.

    the kohaku's from my first spawning this year are coming up to second selection, and there are a few promising ones there. The fact they are coming along ok is giving me hope that I might achieve something with kohaku.

    Since then - I went to the All England Koi show in Kent, UK last weekend and the competition in kohaku was immense. It showed me what I need to ahcieve to compete at a major show like that - and I may not be able to. But, it is a big challenge, and I do like challenges. Plus, the competition in kohaku in the smaller sizes is more manageable and I can conceive of breeding a koi that wins a place in a smaller size category. I think that is achievable.

    In terms of competing in the mid sizes - we'll just have to wait and see. At the minimum, that will be a longer term objective - perhaps 5 to 7 years from now. It may take a few years to get the parent matches right, then go from there.

  2. #12
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    Adam, a lot of love and dedication and effort going into it. Is it keeping you up nights?

    Wondering about the filter changeover where you replaced the brush filters with K1 media. Not familiar with that media, what made you change to it?
    :-) yes, the project is quite full one - and it is a hobby so it's weekends and evenings only. There are so many things to get right, that it does play on my mind sometimes. I've gained a lot of experience already this year, and that will help with the fry I spawned a couple of weeks ago and it planning for next year too.

    In terms of the K1 media - and I'm guessing you read my article on my pond redevelopment. In short - K1 is a plastic bead type media, and I use it in two ways. the first way is to hold it in a static formation where it acts like a sponge and mechanically filters the water. then, to clean it - you use air to agitate the media and that dislodges all the muck and you drain that to waste. it's very quick to clean, and easy to clean well - and that makes it an effecive mechanical filtration approach in my setup.

  3. #13
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Koi are a joy I know, a journey I am told, Sanjay might even point to hints of enlightenment. So here’s the deal, the deal we made with carp: We will eat you and in return we will carry you around. More carp is the eaten than any other fish in aquaculture, carp are now in the rivers and lakes of every habitable continent. Then with koi we expanded the bargain and committed to make them beautiful as well, they in return bear the sembetsu.

    As you say Koi farming is a numbers game so is Texas Hold Em. Hasegawa famed for kohaku says (in Koishi) that if the he lets 10% of a huge spawn die the whole effort is wasted since the best were in the weakest 10%. The trick apparently is not only in how many but in how few. You have heard it said, that he who chases after two hares catches neither. If I were to koi farm I would focus on neglected varieties and develop a name there first. Karashigoi, akame kigoi, hirenaga kinginrin kikokuryu are in demand but limited production. At koi shows there are more kohakus then you can shake a stick at, but a ki bekko, not a single one. Nice bekkos are beautiful, but are extraordinarily rare.
    I exhibit at koi shows in the uk, and to date, I have only exhibited UK bred koi. The varieites I've chosen to exhibit are some of the ones you've listed for similar reasons. And, some of those varieties are really good - I like bekko a lot, and I think they are under-rated.

    I've won big labelled awards with these vareities - like my recent 1st place in bekko size 4 at the all england show. I havent seen the benching matrix yet, but at a glance around the show there werent many bekko. so the prize sounds good, but is a prize like that as good as say, 3rd place kohaku size 1 won against lots of competition?

    I think each has their pro's and cons - I will still breed a few varieties each year to keep my options open. If I could achieve a 3rd place in size 1 kohaku in competition, I will be very happy.

  4. #14
    Nisai
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    thank you for all your comments, questions and thoughts. I've been offline for a few days and now I'm back online it's been great to see the interest on this forum. today, I had another little glitch with the project:

    Loch Ness Shiro spotted in Horseshoe Pond! - Adam Byer - Koi Hobbyist

    somehow - one of the shiro from my early summer spawning survived after the pond harvest in the fry pond outside, grew more than the koi I kept in a nice recirculation pond (and were well fed), and might not look that bad too. if only it werent eating all my latest kohaku hatchlings...

  5. #15
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    LOL.... Yes, the ones that escape the net when culling turn out to be pests. (And, the one's that escape at harvest time turn out to be the best of the spawn... if only you could catch her. )

  6. #16
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamByer View Post
    :-) yes, the project is quite full one - and it is a hobby so it's weekends and evenings only. There are so many things to get right, that it does play on my mind sometimes. I've gained a lot of experience already this year, and that will help with the fry I spawned a couple of weeks ago and it planning for next year too.

    In terms of the K1 media - and I'm guessing you read my article on my pond redevelopment. In short - K1 is a plastic bead type media, and I use it in two ways. the first way is to hold it in a static formation where it acts like a sponge and mechanically filters the water. then, to clean it - you use air to agitate the media and that dislodges all the muck and you drain that to waste. it's very quick to clean, and easy to clean well - and that makes it an effecive mechanical filtration approach in my setup.
    It would seem that the filter brush would let less solids through but the fact that the k1 media is an upgrade says otherwise. Is the ease of cleaning the main reason, or the better filtration?

  7. #17
    Nisai
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    Hi yerrag - K1 used as mechanical filtration gave me a benefit in both ways over the filter brushes in my filtration system. I found the filter brushes difficult to keep as clean as the K1, and it took a lot longer.

    Update on my project - I spend this evening doing my second selections. It's been a long night, working with a head torch (they are brilliant!), and I've put a few pics on my blog so you can see some of the better kohaku prospects that I will grow on for a bit longer.

    2nd selection completed this evening - Adam Byer - Koi Hobbyist

  8. #18
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamByer View Post
    Hi yerrag - K1 used as mechanical filtration gave me a benefit in both ways over the filter brushes in my filtration system. I found the filter brushes difficult to keep as clean as the K1, and it took a lot longer.

    Update on my project - I spend this evening doing my second selections. It's been a long night, working with a head torch (they are brilliant!), and I've put a few pics on my blog so you can see some of the better kohaku prospects that I will grow on for a bit longer.

    2nd selection completed this evening - Adam Byer - Koi Hobbyist
    Nice blog Adam! Very nice job on the selection and thanks for sharing reSons for selection.

  9. #19
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Ditto. I admire your undertaking of this project. Hoping you'll get some worthy ones.

  10. #20
    Nisai
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    Hi. Loch Ness Shiro's finally captured today when we harvested the fry ponds. It's been a mixed bag once again; plenty of positives and also lessons learned. But achievement of my project aims in 2014 is in the balance.

    Loch Ness Shiros Caught (and fry ponds harvested) - Adam Byer - Koi Hobbyist

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