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Thread: Momotaro October 1, 2013 Auction

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Momotaro October 1, 2013 Auction

    The first Momotaro auction of the Fall season will be October 1. The photos and video will be posted soon. I always look forward to the eye candy and studying how Maeda is progressing in developing his lines, particularly his Sanke and Showa. I make an effort to study the auction fish, comparing body types, head shapes, beni types, etc., etc. All are beautiful and at first seem very similar except for pattern. If you pick one trait or feature and then view every Showa (or Kohaku or Sanke) just looking at that one feature, you begin to see that each is different. Do this for a dozen traits.... shape of pectorals, width between eyes, etc., etc. and you begin to wonder how you could have ever thought that they all looked similar. Over time you can get a sense of the direction Maeda is trying to go in his breeding program.

    I encourage everyone to play this little 'compare game'. The photos and video allow it to be done to a degree that exceeds other sites and the superficial similarity allows your eye to discern the 'small' differences that cease being 'small' as you become conscious of them.

    ...Now that SFF and Dainichi are also posting video of auction koi, those who favor those breeders can do the same with their fish.

  2. #2
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The first Momotaro auction of the Fall season will be October 1. The photos and video will be posted soon. I always look forward to the eye candy and studying how Maeda is progressing in developing his lines, particularly his Sanke and Showa. I make an effort to study the auction fish, comparing body types, head shapes, beni types, etc., etc. All are beautiful and at first seem very similar except for pattern. If you pick one trait or feature and then view every Showa (or Kohaku or Sanke) just looking at that one feature, you begin to see that each is different. Do this for a dozen traits.... shape of pectorals, width between eyes, etc., etc. and you begin to wonder how you could have ever thought that they all looked similar. Over time you can get a sense of the direction Maeda is trying to go in his breeding program.

    I encourage everyone to play this little 'compare game'. The photos and video allow it to be done to a degree that exceeds other sites and the superficial similarity allows your eye to discern the 'small' differences that cease being 'small' as you become conscious of them.

    ...Now that SFF and Dainichi are also posting video of auction koi, those who favor those breeders can do the same with their fish.
    Thanks for the heads up MikM.
    good points about how to compare Koi.

    Now here is a challenge to the tech guys out there. Put together an app that removes all the colours and patterns, so that we can concentrate on shape conformation.

    Brian

  3. #3
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The first Momotaro auction of the Fall season will be October 1. The photos and video will be posted soon. I always look forward to the eye candy and studying how Maeda is progressing in developing his lines, particularly his Sanke and Showa. I make an effort to study the auction fish, comparing body types, head shapes, beni types, etc., etc. All are beautiful and at first seem very similar except for pattern. If you pick one trait or feature and then view every Showa (or Kohaku or Sanke) just looking at that one feature, you begin to see that each is different. Do this for a dozen traits.... shape of pectorals, width between eyes, etc., etc. and you begin to wonder how you could have ever thought that they all looked similar. Over time you can get a sense of the direction Maeda is trying to go in his breeding program.

    I encourage everyone to play this little 'compare game'. The photos and video allow it to be done to a degree that exceeds other sites and the superficial similarity allows your eye to discern the 'small' differences that cease being 'small' as you become conscious of them.

    ...Now that SFF and Dainichi are also posting video of auction koi, those who favor those breeders can do the same with their fish.
    This is probably the best advice I've ever heard on how to distinguish differences amongst fish... I always said I wish I could take a siminar on koi characteristics.... this may well be a step toward that.
    Thanks
    Joe

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    For those interested in this little game, here is one way to start.... Randomly pick a gosanke variety, and then randomly pick 3 numbers... say, Sanke 4, 7 and 12. Then pick a trait you expect all Sanke to possess.... say, the shiroji on the head, or how gill covers transition into the body. Now, go to the site (when the videos are posted) and go to the page with nisai (or older) koi in the variety you selected. Watch the video of Sanke #4 three times in a row, then do the same with the videos of Sanke #7 and Sanke #12. You are doing this to de-sensitize your eye to the pattern and movement of the fish. If three times is not enough to start getting bored, look at each video four or five times. Now that you are getting over the exuberance of the first impression, go back to #4 and look at the video another 3 times looking only at the trait you have selected to study. Now look at each of the other two videos 3 times looking only at that trait. At this point you should be observing differences in each of the three koi. And, you will be getting tired of those videos! That makes it the right time to pick a different Sanke and watch her video focusing on the trait being studied. You will actually see what you are looking at.

    Some people find it easier to start with overall body form as the trait to be studied. Some do better picking a more focused trait. It does not matter IMO. What does matter is limiting yourself to three koi for the initial de-sensitization and just one trait. Then you can look at other koi studying that trait and you will find that your perception improves. This little game of mine is about training the eye to perceive what is actually being seen, rather than being diverted by all the other traits a koi possesses. The more you do this for different traits, the more you begin to appreciate how different every koi really is.

    The next step is learning what is desirable and what is not. You will learn what you like and do not like on your own, and most of what you come to prefer will match what judges will say is preferable. Sometimes, you will come to prefer a trait a judge says is not desirable. When that occurs, you have a new learning opportunity.

    This may seem very tedious to many. And, it can become tiring. And, it takes time. If the videos are 30 seconds each, you will likely take 30 minutes in the review of the three koi randomly selected. But, when on the eighth or ninth viewing of a video looking at gill covers, or some such, you finally see something that you've been looking at without realizing what it was, you know that you are teaching your eye to actually see. ....Think of the poor breeder having to really see all aspects of a 2-inch tosai in seconds when doing sembetsu. Nisai and older are much easier.

    A second step you can take is to go through all of the Sanke and group them according to which are most alike in regard to the trait being studied. This can be particularly interesting when studying fin shapes or body form of Sanke because those more heavily influenced with Matsunosuke genetics will be quite different from those destined to have a more blimp-like body form (voluptuous is the term often used). If you study Showa, the shoulder width is a trait worth studying. With all varieties, the thickness of the tail joint is an informative study. If there end up being several Tancho up for auction, I'd recommend studying scale alignment ...you will end up seeing tiny things you'd never noticed before, and with just shiroji to look at, you can get your eyes to focus just on the scales. And, yes, it does get boring.

  5. #5
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    MikeM, GREAT POST, this is the kind of help we all need, This shows the number of years spent picking Koi, along with the people you are learning from.
    This is why I am on this site, to pick up crumbs fallen from the plate of the wise ones !

    Thanks MikeM

    Brian

  6. #6
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    The auction koi have begun to be posted. A different display than in the past, which I find a bit cumbersome, but there are videos and the close-up magnifier is a nice addition.

    Momotaro koi

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I like my sanke's and saw only one that caught my eye. #31. the quality on all these koi are extremely good so it quickly comes down to pattern.
    I love maruten head patches, and white shoulders. Some Sanke's in this bunch are complete with positioned sumi and beni. 31 leaves a bit to be desired and I like that with any purchase. It's the journey not destination for me.

  8. #8
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Mike, In the first group the TM Kohakus five are designated as “Special”. #1 is the classic sandan so I can see it is special. Why are the four others out of the 17 “Special”? For example what would you say sets #3 apart from the lot?

  9. #9
    Tategoi semi skilled keeper's Avatar
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    I do like the Lion Queen PROGENY, ALL OF THEM !!! Sad or what ?
    You may just tell that I do not show ! But still know what I LIKE !!!

    Brian

  10. #10
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Really nice eye candy, means big bucks.....going to check the SFF site....

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