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Thread: Where to get the source water for Bakki?

  1. #1
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Where to get the source water for Bakki?

    Lately I have been arguing with hobbyist friends on where is the best source to feed the bakki:
    1. from the surface skimmer
    2. after the settlement or mechanical filter
    3. after the bio filter
    4. directly from the bottom drain

    I have the icoming water going to my bakki sourced after the aerated submerged bio which passes thru mechanical filter in the form of brushes. My thinking is that since my flowrate is so fast, whatever ammonia and nitrite that still pass thru the submerged bio can be eliminated by the bakki shower while nitrates produced in the submerged aerated filter will be removed by heterotrophic bacteria that houses in the bakki media.

    Many hobbyist are saying the source of the bakki can be taken from the surface skimmer to reduce the upward power needed to lift the water to the bakki and since the surface skimmer does not gets much floating waste(assuming there is no floating leaves) there is less need to prefilter the bakki media. I countered that normally the water on the surface is already well oxygenated and this defeats the purpose of oxygenation that a bakki provides.

    I would like to hear your opinion with regards to this topic.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    I'd say it would have to be after the mechanical filter. First, for the bakki to be fully utilized as a biofilter, instead of just cleaning up after nitrates and leftover ammonia. Otherwise, it's under utilized. Secondly, at this stage it has been filtered of large solid wastes, and only needs to be filtered of fine solids. But it can be argued that choosing this option doesn't allow all of the water to pass thru the bakki where more nitrates can be removed. True, but regular water changes should take care of nitrates and besides, nitrates are less harmful than ammonia.

    But if you have an ERIC system in place, you couldn't draw water after the mechanical brushes. So you'll need to set up a sieve at the sump, and pump water to your bakki after it has gone through a sieve. A reversed sieve would be easy to set up.

    But I'm not sure I understand why a surface skimmer doesn't get much solid waste since that's what a surface skimmer does for floating solid waste.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    My Bakki is fed from a skimmer that has a leaf basket followed by a filter mat, with the pump having a leaf basket as well. There is still algae glarf that gets through, so I place mats over the Bacteria House media in the top tray to capture what I can before it gets caught in the media to rot.

    I purposefully did not have the pond designed to feed the Bakki from a bottom drain. There is so much waste coming from the bottom that I preferred for it to go by gravity flow so a lot could be removed in a settlement chamber before flowing to Nexus units. It would be tough to do adequate mechanical pre-filtration of bottom drain water. Since current and aeration in my pond keeps the water well-oxygenated at all depths, differing oxygen levels is not a concern.

    The effort I take for mechanical waste removal prior to the BH media is not sufficient to prevent a build-up of gunk in the media. Once per year, I remove the media and lightly swish each piece in clean pond water to remove the gunk. It is a time consuming task. (Wear gloves or your hands will be torn up by the ceramic media.) And, bending for hours wears on my back. I probably should do it more frequently, but the work involved causes me to stick with an annual schedule.

    I am very happy with the effect of a shower filter. And, I like a ceramic media being included in the variety of media used in the overall system. A plastic bio-ball type media would not capture as much debris. For me, the shower filter is for biological cleansing and de-gassing, nothing more. The trapping of any debris necessarily detracts from those two functions. So, whatever the source of water for a Bakki, I think it should be as free of waste, algae filaments and such as possible.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    agree with mike's last two sentences. pretty much sums it up

  5. #5
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    agreed. mine is fed from the skimmer and the shower is on the opposite end of the pond. This arrangement also helps in creating water movement from one end of the pond to the other end.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    agree with mike's last two sentences. pretty much sums it up
    Yes. Wherever you can get the cleanest water, you use as source. If your pond has a rotary drum filter, source water would be after the rdf, as only fines less than 40 microns get through. But if it's a reversed sieve at 200 microns, maybe drawing water from a Skimmer would be a better choice:-)

  7. #7
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    If using actual bakki media, not cermedia, and have a really strong, high volume flow... i.e. 10,500gph.... does mechanical filtration matter as much.... I know you need some,, but is it AS important as when using lower flow and/or cermedia?

  8. #8
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Bakki is first and foremost a biological filter. Increasing the flow to smash the waste into smaller and smaller particles does not make sense as the waste will just get to the point that it dissolves in the water.

    I use sintered glass media in my three tier shower filter. On top of the first tier I still use a fine polyester one inch matt that I wash every month and replace every three months. After more than a year, there is no mulk or algae that collects in my bakki media. Even if I dunk the media in the tub after a year, there is very little waste settling at the bottom of the tub. The color of the media has however turned from white to amber.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
    If using actual bakki media, not cermedia, and have a really strong, high volume flow... i.e. 10,500gph.... does mechanical filtration matter as much.... I know you need some,, but is it AS important as when using lower flow and/or cermedia?
    Yes. There is a great deal of emphasis on biological filtration in the koikeeping community, perhaps because the concept is a novel one for the newcomer. The starting place, however, is good mechanical filtration that allows waste and debris to be removed from the system as quickly as possible. Gravity flow, settlement chambers and sieves have become the basic building blocks for an excellent filtration system.

    The use of the Bakki Shower by Momotaro as the exclusive filtration got a lot of attention a few years ago. (I do not know if it remains the sole filtration on any Momotaro ponds. Perhaps someone is aware of the current practice.) That approach has to be viewed in the total context of low stocking rates and continual in-flow of fresh water. If a hobbyist has a daily in-flow of 10% or more of pond volume, has their pond in a greenhouse with no external leaf litter or debris reaching the pond and stocks at the rate of 5,000 gallons per koi, mechanical pre-filtration is not as crucial. I do not know any hobbyists who do that.

  10. #10
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Yes. There is a great deal of emphasis on biological filtration in the koikeeping community, perhaps because the concept is a novel one for the newcomer. The starting place, however, is good mechanical filtration that allows waste and debris to be removed from the system as quickly as possible. Gravity flow, settlement chambers and sieves have become the basic building blocks for an excellent filtration system.

    The use of the Bakki Shower by Momotaro as the exclusive filtration got a lot of attention a few years ago. (I do not know if it remains the sole filtration on any Momotaro ponds. Perhaps someone is aware of the current practice.) That approach has to be viewed in the total context of low stocking rates and continual in-flow of fresh water. If a hobbyist has a daily in-flow of 10% or more of pond volume, has their pond in a greenhouse with no external leaf litter or debris reaching the pond and stocks at the rate of 5,000 gallons per koi, mechanical pre-filtration is not as crucial. I do not know any hobbyists who do that.
    What about situations, like mine, where the bakki is only one pea in the pod. I have two skimmers with matala feeding a bog,,,, this is one aspect of mechanical... and a sieve prior to my ultima..another mechanical.... in my rebuilt shower, I will have an xtra-large leaf basket preceding the pump's built in leaf basket, then some matala sheeting on the very top of the shower... I'm even thinking of adding a filter sock made for leaf baskets to the second leaf basket... if the filter sock and/or matala restrict flow or become clogged too quickly then I'll rethink mechanical on this circuit. I know mechanical filtration has been my biggest weakness in my system... fines are a recurring headache. I've had two barrels with all necessary fittings for a s&g sitting in my garage for a while, but that can't feed my shower. I'm not sure where to put them yet.... I'll be doing some reworking of my plumbing after next weekend's show. I'd get the pressurized sieve from zakki but I'd need about two or three for my flow. My shower is pump fed and about three to four feet above water level of my pond. I need mechanical filtration that can be pump drawn through the pump to the top of my shower... that doesn't leave a lot of options. It seems most mechanical is gravity fed.

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