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Thread: Best and worst marketed and/or customary pond treatments

  1. #1
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Best and worst marketed and/or customary pond treatments

    In this world of mass marketing and universally accepted advertising deceit as well as the ever-persuasive "Bro-Science"... I'd like to know what you've all found that actually works and what is just worthless snake oil.
    i.e. Regular salting, pp as maintenance, bottled bio, various seachem and microbe lift products etc etc

    I often try to sift through the marketing to figure out if there is anything that I'm not doing but maybe could or should as well as wonder if I'm wasting time or money doing something I am.

  2. #2
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    I know I'm preaching to the choir... but snake oil will always be there. I'd like to think of 'poor systematics' as being snake oil, it's just not bottled up. A crappy AS setup with little to no mechanical and bio as being touted by the pond builder is just as much snake oil as the folks that sell bottled products. I think everyone has the right to make their own choices, even if I don't necessarily agree with the choices. But make no mistake about it, there is the dark side of the hobby where products are sold as legitimate products. And some might be legitimate products, I can't comment on every product's effectiveness.

    Open up a KoiUSA mag and see some of the crazy products sold there. On one page there's JR talking about proper koi filtration and maintenance; and on the next page is a full page ad- "Arctic Ice" with bacteria collected from the "Arctic" so they are alive and effective in the cold weather koi pond. Followed by- "My 2500g pond has 19 koi in it and.....because I used Arctic Ice I had no problems coming out of winter when all my neighbors koi died" (or something to that extent).

    So as a new hobbyist, what are they to do? Listen to JR and have to actually work for results? Or simply buy a $50 bottle of 'pond pick me up' crap? Uneducated consumers make poor choices, period. And there will always be the folks out there peddling to uneducated consumers. Now here's the kicker- They think they are actually doing good. Some of these folks believe in their products- whether they are wrong or not doesn't matter- it's what they believe in. More importantly it what the consumer will buy. Remember- McDonald's sells more hamburgers than any company on the planet- yet their hamburgers suck. They're not the Best Hamburgers, they're the Best Selling Hamburgers!

  3. #3
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    I know I'm preaching to the choir... but snake oil will always be there. I'd like to think of 'poor systematics' as being snake oil, it's just not bottled up. A crappy AS setup with little to no mechanical and bio as being touted by the pond builder is just as much snake oil as the folks that sell bottled products. I think everyone has the right to make their own choices, even if I don't necessarily agree with the choices. But make no mistake about it, there is the dark side of the hobby where products are sold as legitimate products. And some might be legitimate products, I can't comment on every product's effectiveness.

    Open up a KoiUSA mag and see some of the crazy products sold there. On one page there's JR talking about proper koi filtration and maintenance; and on the next page is a full page ad- "Arctic Ice" with bacteria collected from the "Arctic" so they are alive and effective in the cold weather koi pond. Followed by- "My 2500g pond has 19 koi in it and.....because I used Arctic Ice I had no problems coming out of winter when all my neighbors koi died" (or something to that extent).

    So as a new hobbyist, what are they to do? Listen to JR and have to actually work for results? Or simply buy a $50 bottle of 'pond pick me up' crap? Uneducated consumers make poor choices, period. And there will always be the folks out there peddling to uneducated consumers. Now here's the kicker- They think they are actually doing good. Some of these folks believe in their products- whether they are wrong or not doesn't matter- it's what they believe in. More importantly it what the consumer will buy. Remember- McDonald's sells more hamburgers than any company on the planet- yet their hamburgers suck. They're not the Best Hamburgers, they're the Best Selling Hamburgers!
    Good answer
    I was pondering why nobody responded to this question for so long... was it because most people are afraid of hurting a reps feelings? Some sort of forum rule forbidding the topic of calling out specific products as bad or, even, good? (I didn't read the rules)
    I, for one don't mind buying products ,,, if the promised results are plausible. As of now that only consists Rapiclear flocculent if I get cloudy water from silt. Occasional PP, light dose treatment, if ive been digging in the bog. The latter is just me being overly cautious about possible bacteria release or DOC increase from the bog. I also, do a prazi/proform-c treatment every fall and spring.... those things plus some koi clay are it.... everything else seems suspect to me.

  4. #4
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Actually Aqua Meds says their "Arctic Blend" contains "microbes". On their web site Aqua Meds says Arctic Blend is not nitrifying bacteria.

    Appliance Guy and I have no need for products like Arctic Blend. The two testimonials on the Arctic Blend's Koi USA ad are from New York and New Jersey. Maybe Arctic Blend might be beneficial in certain cold winter pond situations. I don't know.

    I do not think that regular salting, pp as maintenance, bottled bio, various seachem and microbe lift products are necessarily snake oil, IMO they are just not necessary for the average or advanced hobbyist Koi pond.
    cencalkoi likes this.

  5. #5
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Actually Aqua Meds says their "Arctic Blend" contains "microbes". On their web site Aqua Meds says Arctic Blend is not nitrifying bacteria.

    Appliance Guy and I have no need for products like Arctic Blend. The two testimonials on the Arctic Blend's Koi USA ad are from New York and New Jersey. Maybe Arctic Blend might be beneficial in certain cold winter pond situations. I don't know.

    I do not think that regular salting, pp as maintenance, bottled bio, various seachem and microbe lift products are necessarily snake oil, IMO they are just not necessary for the average or advanced hobbyist Koi pond.
    Arctic Blend isn't on my radar. We do get freezing weather but, it is typically short lived. However, some of the microbe lift products, in particular, have piqued my interest due to mulm build up in my bog.

  6. #6
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    was it because most people are afraid of hurting a reps feelings?
    On this forum? Surely your jest.

    If folks don't want to have the punches thrown....don't represent such products.

  7. #7
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    In a properly designed and well maintained koi pond/filter system about the only pond treatment necessary is a product to remove chlorine from the source water assuming it contains chlorine. Preventative treatments tend to do more harm that good.
    ageinghippy likes this.

  8. #8
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
    In a properly designed and well maintained koi pond/filter system about the only pond treatment necessary is a product to remove chlorine from the source water assuming it contains chlorine. Preventative treatments tend to do more harm that good.
    I sure wish I could either go back in time or afford a true rebuild.... I don't have a perfectly designed pond... I can think of two minor changes that would have eased my maintenance ten fold, that wouldn't have cost me any more money... raising the bog walls and adding a second bottom drain.... the first problem.. lower bog walls has me regularly pulling up plants that block water causing it to overflow out the back... what this does is release fines every time.. I could have gone without the bog altogether, but the giant canaa and elephant ears etc are a center piece as is the cascading 7000gph waterfall, not to mention a reading of zero nitrates and minimal phosphate most all the time.
    As for the latter... It was the end of a 16 hour day working on the pond and I decided to go with a single BD out of pure exhaustion and laziness. I had even purchased the BD and pipes already. Because of those two simple exclusions to my system, fines are a constant battle. After next weekend's show, Ill be adding at least one, if not two, s&g filters... I'm thinking that or one s&g followed by a fluid bed filter.. I'm finally functional again... it's going to be a long fall of pond maintenance and reconfiguring.

  9. #9
    Nisai bone's Avatar
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    You can make a paste with any bottled bio, PP, Sludge Remover and barley extract. It will not only grow hair on concrete but your head too! Have read some good things about EA's Pure Pond kinda help clear/polish your water but never used it myself.

    I would like to see the manufacturers test their products with measurable/verifiable outcomes and publish it through something like videos. Of course it would be easy for them to cheat.

    Dan

  10. #10
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bone View Post
    You can make a paste with any bottled bio, PP, Sludge Remover and barley extract. It will not only grow hair on concrete but your head too! Have read some good things about EA's Pure Pond kinda help clear/polish your water but never used it myself.

    I would like to see the manufacturers test their products with measurable/verifiable outcomes and publish it through something like videos. Of course it would be easy for them to cheat.

    Dan
    Peer reviewed double blind studies are commonplace in many markets,, but I'm not sure enough consumers actually care enough to make it worthwhile for companies, even good ones, to spend the money doing it...I've seen one independent study comparing various brands of koi clays, that was enlightening, but that's it. It's hard to find real research results that are more than marketing hype... face it, no hype means no sales in most cases... even good companies have to do it.

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