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Thread: how to manage a mud pond

  1. #21
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    ..... Tosai ponds are fertilized to encourage growth of microscopic life that will feed the rotifers and such that are the first foods of fry released into them.
    What kind of fertilizer is used? Where do the rotifers come from? Sorry to hijack the thread. Interesting topic; as I have just come across an old bucket in my yard with some rainwater and a lot of organisms dancing around in the bucket. I was just wondering what all the different and funky creatures are.

  2. #22
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akai-San View Post
    What kind of fertilizer is used? Where do the rotifers come from? Sorry to hijack the thread. Interesting topic; as I have just come across an old bucket in my yard with some rainwater and a lot of organisms dancing around in the bucket. I was just wondering what all the different and funky creatures are.
    If it has anything to do with managing a mud pond, I want it. I want people to ask questions that I didn't think to ask. This thread can answer questions for anyone who ever thought about having a mud pond. Mud pond rental makes it possible for anyone within the proximity of rural areas.

  3. #23
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    I believe Chicken Manure is used for fry ponds.

  4. #24
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akai-San View Post
    What kind of fertilizer is used? Where do the rotifers come from? Sorry to hijack the thread. Interesting topic; as I have just come across an old bucket in my yard with some rainwater and a lot of organisms dancing around in the bucket. I was just wondering what all the different and funky creatures are.
    Like Troy posted, chicken manure is often mentioned. I'm sure other organic fertilizers get used as well. Your bucket likely has mosquito larvae and other insect larvae in it. The first foods for fry are microscopic. They will show up in any water body with livable parameters. With the fertilization, there is a super-abundance that allows the maximum number of fry to grow to the point of being able to consume visible critters and then pelletized foods. The most difficult step in raising the newly hatched fry of any fish is having suitable food in abundance for them.

  5. #25
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Ok, so this is interesting to me. I want to try and grow something. I don't know what to do but I just did something. I did a filter media cleaning and captured everything that got rinsed (not washed) off into a large tub. After settlement, I took some of the water (hopefully with some bugs in it) and made another tub with clean pond water syphoned from my QT. I dropped a cap full of EM-1 in the water and started a airstone to churn the water pretty good. I got some chicken manure but I don't know what to do with it. Do I dump it straight into the water? OR do I put it into a fine filter bag and put it into the water. Where do the daphnia come from? Do I need a bag from the pet shop? Sorry if I got too many questions...

  6. #26
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akai-San View Post
    Ok, so this is interesting to me. I want to try and grow something. I don't know what to do but I just did something. I did a filter media cleaning and captured everything that got rinsed (not washed) off into a large tub. After settlement, I took some of the water (hopefully with some bugs in it) and made another tub with clean pond water syphoned from my QT. I dropped a cap full of EM-1 in the water and started a airstone to churn the water pretty good. I got some chicken manure but I don't know what to do with it. Do I dump it straight into the water? OR do I put it into a fine filter bag and put it into the water. Where do the daphnia come from? Do I need a bag from the pet shop? Sorry if I got too many questions...
    I would never use chiken manure unless it was processed. You could use koi fish food or rabbit pellets.
    If you can not buy a dafnia culture then the best place to look is a shallow farm pond what cows drink from.
    I used pantyhose to make a net for catching them.
    Regards
    Eugene

  7. #27
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    First, the water needs to turn green. The chicken manure (or other fertilizer) is nutrient for the greenwater organisms. After it turns green, microscopic critters show up to the eat the greenwater algae. These little critters serve as first foods for fry. Green water is what feeds the food chain of daphnia, rotifers and smaller critters. An adult daphnia is too big for even koi fry to eat. Baby daphnia are another matter. After a week or two of consuming the foods available in greenwater, the fry get big enough to tackle adult daphnia. Adding daphnia before you have greenwater is not going to accomplish much. By the time fry are big enough to eat adult daphnia, they can be switched to powdered dry foods.

    The green slime that appears as the first stage of algae growth on the walls of a container harbors 'aufwuchs'...look it up. This is a big help when the fry are first free-swimming.

  8. #28
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Mike...I didn't know you speak german

    While preparing a mudpond for fry growth sounds fairly easy, the timing is so critical. When the fry are switched over a day or two can make a big difference in survival.
    once that hurdle is jumped the next biggie, is well tobie...those bigger fry willing to consume their weaker brothers and sisters. It used to be that they initially were considered trash, that the weaker smaller fry were the better ones. But that's not necessarily true, so preparations have to be made to have facilities to accept the bigger koi during continuing sembetsu.
    Dick Benbow

  9. #29
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    First, the water needs to turn green. The chicken manure (or other fertilizer) is nutrient for the greenwater organisms. After it turns green, microscopic critters show up to the eat the greenwater algae. These little critters serve as first foods for fry. Green water is what feeds the food chain of daphnia, rotifers and smaller critters. An adult daphnia is too big for even koi fry to eat. Baby daphnia are another matter. After a week or two of consuming the foods available in greenwater, the fry get big enough to tackle adult daphnia. Adding daphnia before you have greenwater is not going to accomplish much. By the time fry are big enough to eat adult daphnia, they can be switched to powdered dry foods.

    The green slime that appears as the first stage of algae growth on the walls of a container harbors 'aufwuchs'...look it up. This is a big help when the fry are first free-swimming.
    As always, thanks Mike! All my internet surfing about growing live food for fry has basically led me down the road of boiled egg yolks, baby brine shrimp, crushed pellets and chicken manure...haha. I'm very fortunate to have you as a GREAT resource to make everything simple and too the point. What would we do with out you?? (Stop! Don't even think about it.) Anyway...After a good week, I do have the desired green water and green algae building on the side of a small 35 gallon test tub. I think I will need to invest in a good microscope if I am to satisfy my curiosity. I never thought I'd be soooo interested in water quality and all the little monsters that make up the Eco-System. My rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper and I keep crawling back in over and over again.

    Look-up:

    The term aufwuchs actually encompasses algae and the insect larvae, crustaceans, protozoans and other small creatures that become attached to the algae, which are in turn attached to the rocks or other substrate. It is the larvae, small crustaceans, and other creatures that are the important component of this ever ready fish food.



  10. #30
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Found a bunch of daphnia at a local pet shop. Placed them into the green water with lots of air bubbles churning the water. QUESTION: How and what do you feed the baby daphnia? Should there be any water changes/filtration with prolonging the daphnia culture to the next generations?

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