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Thread: Thoughts on a 13" showa

  1. #1
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Thoughts on a 13" showa

    My brain farted... I don't know why I put showa in the title...lol
    I bowled and measured a few of my newer fish.
    I'd like to get some thoughts on this female Purdin kohaku.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Thoughts on a 13" showa-attachment-52.jpeg   Thoughts on a 13" showa-attachment-63.jpeg   Thoughts on a 13" showa-attachment-56.jpeg   Thoughts on a 13" showa-attachment-64.jpeg   Thoughts on a 13" showa-attachment-54.jpeg  

    Tosai_Sunny likes this.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I love their kohaku. the beni is often thick and bright. I think your koi exhibits those traits.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Is she a 13-inch tosai, or a 13-inch nisai? It helps to know when trying to evaluate her future. If nisai, she is a bit on the small side for what they accomplish in Louisiana. Body form is good. Pigment looks good overall. There are some kiwa questions. Her age and how recently out of the mud have to be considered in that regard.

  4. #4
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Definitely tosai. As to how long out of the mud, your guess is as good as mine. I didn't think to ask.

  5. #5
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Nice Kohaku! But what I really like is your measuring tub In fact, I like it so much that I think I will make one this weekend. A few months ago, I looked up one online to buy and literally fell off of my chair. I got TONS of markers lying around my place. I still can't believe I didn't think of doing something like this...I guess I haven't had the need or urge to measure my fish to check for growth. I just know they are growing out of their spaces really fast.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    It has a nice shape and strong beni. Nice refined pattern that allow shiroji to be appreciated. I'd prefer the nose beni to recede over time and just decorate the lips so that it would come to enhance the composition of the beni pattern. I like the distinct shoulder hump although I'm not sure what it portends, though I think it holds the promise of a solid shoulder. Mike hasn't commented on it being male, so maybe it's female?

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Loco said it is female. If Purdin said it is female, it is very highly likely female even though tosai. Bill McGurk does not identify sex unless he is quite comfortable with his belief. There is nothing obviously male about it. Sexing tosai from a photo is not reliable, even at 13 inches.

    The shoulder hump brings up an interesting point. Some will not like seeing such shoulder development in a tosai, thinking it indicates the koi will not grow well in the future because nutrition has been stored in the hump rather than going into further growth. There is some validity to the thinking, but the overall context of how the fish has been raised must be taken into consideration. A 13-inch (33cm) tosai at this time of year indicates good growth. The hump can just indicate a well-fed youngster. There is no indication of a fat belly. The length of the head is good. The body lines are good. So, altogether, I see a robust youngster.

  8. #8
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Thanks for the lesson on humps Mike. I see humps on mature Koi and think highly of them, and I think it's because it adds another dimension to the Koi. But I wonder at what point these humps develop? Is it when they stop growing lengthwise? I am referring to Koi with no or barely visible humps in their youth.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Bloodlines differ. You won't see much any in Matsunosuke Sanke. A Sanke with a real hump will have a heavy dose of other genetics. They are more often seen in Showa and Kohaku where large size was obtained without going back to magoi. Some say the hump goes back to use of european food carp to gain size. Some say the hump just developed in tandem with efforts focused on other traits, such as gaining volume, and has been carried along as part of the package of traits. Whether humps come from a european origin, were independently developed in Japan , or both (the quest for size in europe and Japan could independently result in similar traits), koi have them in varying degrees. Some people do not like humps. Some do. Severely exaggerated humps are a negative. Judges accept moderate humps with no mark-down. No doubt there are different preferences among individual judges.

    Humps are more often noticed on hobbyists' koi when growth in length has greatly slowed. (In theory, koi never stop growing, but if my 20 year old Hariwake is still growing it is imperceptible.) However, young koi with much growing to do can have humps. It depends on the growing conditions. I recall one year when Nisei Koi Farm (located in the northern part of the U.S.) experienced a summer when the water just never warmed up. All of the koi harvested that year had more bulk than one would expect. They ate as much as ever, but the cool water slowed their growth. What really stood out to me were the humps on nisai Showa. Under the old tale of humps meaning no more growth, those nisai were done growing at 30-35cm. It did not prove true. The nisai raised to sansai the following year had excellent growth... and no humps. There is a 75-80cm Showa in my pond now that was one of those 30cm nisai.

    A lot of the general statements made about koi have some truth behind them, but do not tell the whole story.
    nivek likes this.

  10. #10
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    My humps, my lovely showa humps...I actually have a showa that is showing signs of gaining that shoulder/neck hump. Growth has been pretty good, but I did notice that the proportions of the head to body wasn't exactly to my preference. I did some internet surfing and found that the common black carp had more of the pronounced shoulder hump and taller body shape, unlike the longer more torpedo like shape magoi from Japan. I guess much like the different breeds of dogs, koi fish have their development through cross breeding one brand with another brand with another style, etc. etc. Exhausting isn't it??

    I guess this is just one other thing to look for when evaluating conformation for the koi that we want in our environments. The more I study the thousands of variations of koi parts (heads, eyes, mouth, shoulders, etc.), the more lost I get when trying to understand the growth, make-up and lineage of the koi families. Even within controlled environments and with controlled breeding programs, there is no control over what mother nature will toss out for our viewing pleasure or misery.

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