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Thread: Winter Care

  1. #81
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    I failed to add that last year I stopped giving feeding my koi coconut meat. It was additional work to do so - chopping the mature flesh. I kept thinking whether the koi needed the virgin coconut oil in them.

    I can't be sure, but now I'm seeing my kohaku having a white slimy buildup on its skin. It's cold season now, so looking at past threads it appears to be a cold weather phenomenom and it's expected to clear up as the weather warms up. But I can't help thinking that I haven't experienced this before, and my pond has been the cleanest it's been than before. So I'm inclined to think that the coconut oil has been helpful in protecting the skin of koi.

    Once the cold weather is over, which is around March, I will resume the feeding of coconut to my koi. Perhaps I won't feed as much as before, but I think it is very helpful to koi development.

    As I read thru Ray Peat's old newsletters, I'd like to share one excerpt from a newsletter entitled "Carbon Monoxide:Cancer Hormone?:

    Unsaturated fatty acids are now clearly identified as a "target" of ultraviolet radiationdamage in skin cells, and increasingly they are seen to be involved in toxic injury and stress injury. Radiation absorbed anywhere in a cell can start a peroxidation chain reaction, causing widespread damage, which can include the inactivation of important enzymes...

    I can't help but think about the effect of our koi lacking the protection offered by saturated fats. In feeding koi unsaturated fats, we are probably making our koi more vulnerable to the effects of UV exposure from sunlight.

  2. #82
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    All the more important to put a pergola or roof over the concrete display pond and put koi in a mud pond over the summer. The turbid water in a mud pond will provide lots of UV protection.

  3. #83
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    All the more important to put a pergola or roof over the concrete display pond and put koi in a mud pond over the summer. The turbid water in a mud pond will provide lots of UV protection.
    I agree. To the point that it shouldn't be considered optional to have a pergola, or a shade sail, especially for koi ponds that are very much exposed to sunlight, on months where the sunlight is harsh and direct.

    Still, I'd like to see some koi food made with coconut oil, instead of fish oil. But the danger of this food is that the koi keeper should understand the food is not meant to be fed on cold seasons, as the saturated fat solididfes and could solidify. Since koi are cold-blooded, they have no way to increase their temperature to keep the coconut oil from solidifying.

  4. #84
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I would hesitate to take any research focused on how humans digest and assimilate nutrient, and apply it to fish. For example, the system of the fish results in excess energy being stored as 'fish oil'. Mammals tend to store excess energy in saturated fats to a much higher degree.

    The idea that harmful UV targets unsaturated fatty acids in the skin layers does seem transferable. That is a very interesting and leads to more questions. To what extent are unsaturated fatty acids stored in the exposed areas of a koi? What is the effect of the mucus coat? (And, what is the effect on the mucus coat?) Is the risk different for doitsu than wagoi? .... This could be an area of inquiry that helps explain hikkui, and someday might lead to figuring out why some koi seem genetically inclined to get hikkui.

    Yerrag, do you have more info on the UV/unsaturated fatty acids interactions?

  5. #85
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    I would hesitate to take any research focused on how humans digest and assimilate nutrient, and apply it to fish. For example, the system of the fish results in excess energy being stored as 'fish oil'. Mammals tend to store excess energy in saturated fats to a much higher degree.

    The idea that harmful UV targets unsaturated fatty acids in the skin layers does seem transferable. That is a very interesting and leads to more questions. To what extent are unsaturated fatty acids stored in the exposed areas of a koi? What is the effect of the mucus coat? (And, what is the effect on the mucus coat?) Is the risk different for doitsu than wagoi? .... This could be an area of inquiry that helps explain hikkui, and someday might lead to figuring out why some koi seem genetically inclined to get hikkui.

    Yerrag, do you have more info on the UV/unsaturated fatty acids interactions?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20653882


    The effect of UV radiation (UVR) on juvenile Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) was assessed by measuring the fatty acid (FA) profiles of muscle, dorsal and ventral skin, and ocular tissues following 4-month long exposures to four different UVR treatments in outdoor rearing tanks. Fish were fed two different diets (Anchovy- and Herring-oil based) that differed in polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) concentrations. Anchovy-fed salmon had higher concentrations of ALA (alpha-linoleic acid; 18:3n-3), EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid; 20:5n-3) and DPA (docosapentaenoic acid, 22:5n-3) in their muscle tissues than fish fed the Herring feed. Fish subjected to enhanced UVB levels had higher concentrations of LIN (linolenic acid, 18:2n-6) and ALA, total omega-6 FA and SAFA (saturated fatty acids) in their tissues compared with fish in reduced UV treatments. Concentrations of ALA, LIN, GLA (gamma-linolenic acid; 18:3n-6), EPA, PUFA and total FA were higher in ventral skin of fish exposed to enhanced UVB compared with fish in reduced UV treatments. Salmon exposed to reduced UV weighed more per-unit-length than fish exposed to ambient sunlight. The FA profiles suggest that fish exposed to UV radiation were more quiescent than fish in the reduced UV treatments resulting in a buildup of catabolic substrates.

  6. #86
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Very interesting! Thank you, Sacicu.

    I wish I had time now to read up on the subject. Need to find a couple of days to devote to it. ....Maybe someone will and post a summary sooner??

  7. #87
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    BTW, this is no longer about winter feeding. This topic should be a thread of its own.

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