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Thread: SFF Kohaku Development

  1. #1
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    SFF Kohaku Development

    Was wondering what the experts on this forum thinks about the future of this kohaku?
    She was bread by SFF and the parent koi is Dynamite Ochiba - an Ochiba - so it's very interesting to watch her develop. She is a fast grower and a very friendly fish. Quickly became one of my favourite fish. I shot the video at noon in direct sun so the video is a bit over exposed and it does not give a true reflexion of the hi quality - so I inserted some pics to provide more visuals.


  2. #2
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    That size at that age is a tell of her Genetics & your Keeping Skills. Congrats


    Only slight knock would be the last 1/3 of the Koi seems a little thin.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I would not have guessed she was from SFF. The body is not what I expect from SFF. It has a long, lean structure. I do not see her developing the voluminous blimp configuration I have come to expect from SFF. I am wondering if her development will be more like Matsunosuke Sanke, growing long before adding volume. I understand Troy's observation and do not disagree. But, I am thinking that the lean look will improve as she develops, say around her 7th year?? Having reached 80cm as yonsai, I do not doubt she can exceed 90cm. Can she reach a meter? I think it is enough of a possibility to have it in mind as she develops. The beni is still immature. She has quite a way to go.

    The video and photos may not accurately show the shiroji. It seems a bit creamy, not a pearl white. As if she is getting color enhancers in her feed?? If that impression of the shiroji being a bit off is accurate, I'd not worry about it too much for now. It can be addressed when she is more fully developed.

    The whole idea of getting Kohaku out of a cross of Ochiba and Kohaku is going to surprise some. The cross was undoubtedly intended to produce improved Ochiba, with this Kohaku being a pleasant surprise. I am aware of other Kohaku look-alikes coming out of crosses with Ochiba. They are inherently one-offs with unreliable genotype, so they do not get used in the continuing breeding program. Such a Kohaku could be the base for a new line to be created if the breeder is ready to invest space and effort with only a dream that something new and better can be produced.

    Do you know if there were other Kohaku produced by this cross? How many? What SFF is doing with them?

    I would really enjoy having this Kohaku. She is beautiful and her heredity makes her special in another way. There could be surprises ahead. That always adds interest to observing a koi
    Last edited by MikeM; 01-19-2014 at 10:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    Thanks for the detailed feedback Mike. Up to now she did not get much colour food besides what is in Saki Hikari Multi season. Her white is more translucent at this stage and that is why you see the deep sashi over the shoulder. I have to keep on reminding myself of her age when I look at her skin and not compare it to the other 80cm koi in my pond that is 4 years older and more mature. She does have a long way to go and that little hi patch with bad sashi would need to fully fisnish before she will do well at a show.

    SFF has lost this parent koi now - she was over 110cm when they lost her I'm told. There have been several kohaku offspring over the years from this pairing. I think they finally got the males right about 3 or 4 years ago as last year one of her offspring won the Hiroshima Nagosai show - I understand the kohaku was 85cm and only 4 years old or something like that. I have a pic of the parent pairing fromt he Sakai parent book but I can't upload it because my pic folder has gone over the limit - will have to go and delete some old photos first.

    I understand they have now been using some of these offspring in their breeding program - I saw a sanke on another discussion where they used a kohaku female offspring and a momotaro male sanke - also seems to be growing rather fast.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    The whole idea of getting Kohaku out of a cross of Ochiba and Kohaku is going to surprise some. The cross was undoubtedly intended to produce improved Ochiba, with this Kohaku being a pleasant surprise. I am aware of other Kohaku look-alikes coming out of crosses with Ochiba.
    Do you know if there were other Kohaku produced by this cross? How many? What SFF is doing with them?
    i was wondering how many came out kohaku also.
    daughter has a big guess you call ochiba with what i like for a body and wished it had a pattern to it.also have a kohaku here and wondered if it would work to cross.
    course for me not being a breeder i would only hope for couple kohaku anyway cause what would i do with 100's of them(even what i would due with the others not kohaku either)

    also with ochiba and its black netting if say you did get kohaku would they be very prone to shimis
    Paul Korf

    member of:
    Midwest Pond and Koi Society
    Louisville Koi club
    IKONA

  6. #6
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    I've tried to spawn a female kohaku with a male ochiba - did not get a single kohaku!

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erns View Post
    Thanks for the detailed feedback Mike. Up to now she did not get much colour food besides what is in Saki Hikari Multi season. Her white is more translucent at this stage and that is why you see the deep sashi over the shoulder. I have to keep on reminding myself of her age when I look at her skin and not compare it to the other 80cm koi in my pond that is 4 years older and more mature. She does have a long way to go and that little hi patch with bad sashi would need to fully fisnish before she will do well at a show.

    SFF has lost this parent koi now - she was over 110cm when they lost her I'm told. There have been several kohaku offspring over the years from this pairing. I think they finally got the males right about 3 or 4 years ago as last year one of her offspring won the Hiroshima Nagosai show - I understand the kohaku was 85cm and only 4 years old or something like that. I have a pic of the parent pairing fromt he Sakai parent book but I can't upload it because my pic folder has gone over the limit - will have to go and delete some old photos first.

    I understand they have now been using some of these offspring in their breeding program - I saw a sanke on another discussion where they used a kohaku female offspring and a momotaro male sanke - also seems to be growing rather fast.
    Very interesting. I look forward to seeing the parent photos. ...Perhaps Jim can get Brian to enlarge your posting capacity.

    I would like to know more about what SFF is doing with this. ...And, their reasons. SFF has such a successful Kohaku program, when they mix it up it is time to take notice.

  8. #8
    Tategoi Erns's Avatar
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    Here you go Mike - It's low res because I'm now all out on my 20meg limit and I can't seem to figure out how to delete any of the old images I have on here.
    Well - Dynamite Ochiba is dead now as is Shining Rose - but they have offspring of those parent koi somewhere in the breeding program and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future but I'm sure the solid kohaku and sanke lines are established.
    I was lucky enough to get my hands on a M-Legend nissai this season and she was 61cm at 18 months old. Will keep and close eye on how she develops compared to this "Ochiba" kohaku with regards to growth rates etc.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SFF Kohaku Development-2010_sff_p20_p21.jpg  

  9. #9
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erns View Post
    Here you go Mike - It's low res because I'm now all out on my 20meg limit and I can't seem to figure out how to delete any of the old images I have on here.

    An interesting koi. If you figure out how to delete old photos please share the method.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    I contacted (PM) J. North and he either added space for me or had Brian do it a year ago.

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