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Thread: Culling questions, kohaku and shiro utsuri

  1. #1
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    Culling questions, kohaku and shiro utsuri

    Many culling questions; how early, how often, what for?

    I have a friend who has three sets of fry and eggs in the breeding pond. The guilty parties were:

    1 week ago: a female showa and a male doitsu ochiba
    4 days ago: three kohakus; one male, two females -- very high quality
    yesterday: two Omosako shiro utsuri

    So the showa/ochiba 'junk' fry are already swimming around and are really difficult to see. A bunch of black fish.

    The kohaku fry should show up today or tomorrow.

    In a few more days the shiro utsuri fry show.

    Let's assume that the showa/ochiba fry are junk and not worth saving in any way.

    When can we start culling and what should we look for? I'm guessing that we start culling deformities and black fish in a couple of weeks. After that, what is the routine? Can we cull sooner?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Hi Jason!
    Look right now in your showa spawn for black babies and get rid of everything else. after the babies get a coupla inches bigger look for
    deformities. then in the fall cull for pattern.

    With the kohaku wait one month and discard the solid red and white ones. when I say red they probably will vary from yellow to orange. but get rid of the solid colored ones. then each month they should grow another inch and you cull by pattern only. by the time fall comes you look for density of the beni. remember a heavy pattern on a tosai is not pretty but a pretty one on a tosai becomes underwhelming as it grows.

    when the shiros are three days old select just the black fry. then after a coupla months look for deformities especially in the head shape. there is so much to learn about culling these koi. there are lots of different sumi types. some show right away some are shaded and fill in later. you might want to select patterns that appeal to you that are full up, partial submerged etc and follow them thru and take notes/photos. this will help in furthur slections from this pair.

    I just sold our #1 nissai shiro we had been keeping as stealth, hidden away. I could tell when it was three inches it was #1. the white skin tone, what black was showing was blue-black. the pecs were solid black and then as it aged it crawled back to next to nothing. this spring the pecs went solid black again and had just started crawling black. It had about one third black pattern the rest white. the black is beginning to fill in now to about 40%.

    I hope you'll take photos and share your thoughts and experiences. Good luck!!

  3. #3
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    Ahhhh nuts!

    In a week we should start tossing out everything but the black ones EXCEPT for the kohaku fry which need a month before some color appears.

    It looks like all culling will be delayed for a month then.

    Any suggestions on how to keep 1,000,000 fry alive in a 3000 gallon closed circuit pond? How about only 250,000? :lol:

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Jason,
    Don't get discouraged. it's just a part of the learning curve. If it was me
    I would count out 3,000 fry and work with them to start. that will keep your water quality in check for a while as they grow. when the time comes apply the other stuff i suggested and if you do get something decent, it won't be compromised! (health wise)

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Bumped up for Dizzy.

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    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike

  7. #7
    Sanctimonious Ass - BANNED
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonS View Post
    Ahhhh nuts!

    In a week we should start tossing out everything but the black ones EXCEPT for the kohaku fry which need a month before some color appears.

    It looks like all culling will be delayed for a month then.

    Any suggestions on how to keep 1,000,000 fry alive in a 3000 gallon closed circuit pond? How about only 250,000? :lol:
    I've not seen a wild spawn hold up that well in numbers over the months as even saving the so-called junk I wouldn't think you would have an unmanageable bunch in coming months. Lots of fun

  8. #8
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Jason welcome back!!!! Showa, select black fry...and Kohaku look for some sort of pattern...

  9. #9
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    It was never made clear 2 1/2 years ago when this thread started that all of these fry got put into the same pond. Read Jason's post again. That's why he says "Nuts."

    As for the show/ ochiba fry being junk...Not neccessarily, just hard to cull early. You'd get plenty of good fish among the culls, showas, ochibas, kohaks. Chagois, and soragois if you wanted to look at a lot of little bodies for confirmation. But it is not going to happen in a 3000g pond.

    Mickey the windowman

  10. #10
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Here are some pics of shiro development I took from some fry I was given, bred by Duncan Griffths.

    This first picture was taken at about 3 months of age. A fine looking fish with deep sumi and a great pattern.




    Here is now the same fish at one year. The sumi has all sunk down deep.I had big questions as to how this fish would go further.


    Now 6 months down the line it is again a whole different fish with sumi starting to re-emerge.



    B.Scott



    .
    Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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