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Thread: Selecting Young Matsukawabake

  1. #1
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Selecting Young Matsukawabake

    Sorting through some young Matsukawabake.....................this one would be in my top 5.............a few months ago the only sumi was the black eye.Selecting Young Matsukawabake-matsu.jpg

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Nice shiroji. ... 'She' seems a bit pink on my screen. If accurate, reminds me of how Tancho often react to the stress of being bowled.

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    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    like to see what the other 4 looked like When you roll this fish over is there any indications of black underneath, especially in the fins?

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    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Mike, A good observation, but related to the use of artificial light rather than stress-pinking

  5. #5
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    like to see what the other 4 looked like When you roll this fish over is there any indications of black underneath, especially in the fins?
    Hi Dick. This one develops without strong indications of the character you mention here, but I am bound to find you some other photos.

    I have to say, selecting Matsukawabake is not about looking at a koi as a moment in time. It just cannot be done like that. The selection process is about observing the individual koi over a longer period of time. How the sumi develops over time is very important in understanding the route to pattern (with a matsukawabake character). What I look for, is a koi that will eventually have enough shiro on the body to give it a proper matsukawabake character. Many will end up becoming Yotsushiro, Hageshiro or Hijaro from 12 months onwards. Most will end up looking nothing like the 'proper' matsu character by 3-5 years and will stay as a mostly black koi with some or no white on the head.

    For selection, first, absolute given for a show koi, is body. Next is the sex. Most males have dirtier white. Females tend to colour the shiro better. An eventual strong contrast between the shiro and the sumi is vital and females tend to have this, much much more than males do.

    The first part of observing is to determine the type you have. These are the main types and occassionaly there are variations.

    Forget the first 6-12 months. Too much changes to give a really good indication of how the ratio of sumi to white will progress. The period is fun as so much of the pattern evolves, but longer term, the observations from the second autumn onwards onwards are the most handy.

    # Slow changing - I personally prefer these. I only keep these now. I am talking about slow changes in sumi. These retain the matsu character longer. In addition, if you can start off with a young, nearly completely white koi, with the slow advance of sumi, these hold the character and are much likely to have a nice sumi to shiro ratio into adulthood.

    # Even those with no evident body sumi, no motuguro or other fin sumi, but with black eyes and a dark brain spot are worth keeping. But be prepared to take a longish wait for the body sumi to arrive.

    # Quick changing, back and forth - Those that progress to mostly white one season and mostly black next are the hardest to predict - but are not as common as is believed. These are a gamble.

    # Extensive grey / asagi-like sumi over much of the body from a young age - these tend to end up as Hijaro or retain some amount of white on the head to be Hageshiro

    Take note of the sumi location - In most, the sumi will start at the tail and fill in up toward the head. Or, sumi will rise up from the belly. Slow changing versions of these are fine to keep.

    I prefer those with little or no motuguro and little or no sumi on the cheeks as these will come later and tend to become those with the more obvious matsu character.

    For me, the best looking matsukawabake for a future, show are female, with exceptional white, very dark black eyes, that start the second autumn with very little body or fin sumi. A tiny amount of sumi on the body and/or at the tail is the best start. BUT What us very important is slowly slowly changes to the sumi. Almost everything else will end up as near completely black koi. Mind, if the shiro is very white and sumi is intense, these are exceptional koi (but who needs more than one?).

    As a side note, the sumi in the body must be black, not bronze-black. The best time is to look at the sumi in the sunlight (when it eventually has enough).

    When culling less than 6-12 months, a number koi in a spawn will have a very dark ochiba look to the them - these do not become anything. Also cull those black koi with red bellies.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Selecting Young Matsukawabake-beni-matsu.jpg

    Here you go Dick, a Beni Matsukawabake

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and for digging thru your photo gallery. It's appreciated. one of the things i learned about these guys was helping others select them with consideration to their home temperatures. most gave it little to no consideration. places like hawaii where temps and strong sun dominate, I always suggest a stronger, bigger sumi pattern. For those residing in like the northern tier of states here in thr U.S., get one that has more white in the pattern. To me the ability to change patterns with the seasons is a wonderful gift and something to enjoy
    each day thru out the year. nothing more discouraging in hot temps then to stare at shiro muji.

    Recently had a close friend judge a ZNA show in Australia. Really appreciated his comments because of the unexpected quality of the show competitors. A real tribute to breeders like yourself, who had to do it " the hard way". Congrats! and keep up the good work!
    Dick Benbow

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    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Oh, Bradley. Excellent explanation of your experience with these koi! I do not believe I've ever seen it summarized as understandably. ...Another good explanation of the risks of tosai in the black & white field.

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    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Bradley, Not a single warning about Gerard McDonald ?


    Thought I could count on you. lol
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Selecting Young Matsukawabake-dsc09147.jpg   Selecting Young Matsukawabake-dsc09163.jpg  
    Last edited by HEADACHE6; 05-28-2014 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Bradley, Not a single warning about Gerard McDonald ?


    Thought I could count on you. lol
    LOL. I'm sure you could tell much more colorful stories........We don't export our koi, but we''l send you Gerard :P

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