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Thread: Dwarf/Miniature Koi Lines - US

  1. #1
    Fry
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    Dwarf/Miniature Koi Lines - US

    I am trying to track down any US importers/breeders of these, as well as confirm their actual existence as a true dwarf koi as opposed to stunted growth.

    I had seen them for sale at a fish store in Europe (Italy I believe was where we were at the time) three years ago - and from what I gathered between my broken Italian and their broken English was that it was a line developed in Israel. The store staff claimed they were a true dwarf that would top out at about 6".

    I have also found this from Bassleer:

    Koi Butterfly Dwarf variety

    The description of the video claims a 10 cm adult length. Not sure if that line was developed independent of the Israeli line.

    The third mention I have found is from a Malaysian Koi auction house:

    Yamakoshi Info: Mini Tosai in Action - Koi Answers - All your Questions and Answers about Koi in 1 Forum

    I don't know if they developed the line themselves or if they import them from Japan or elsewhere.

    In any case, it does appear that dwarf/miniature koi might exist (different from the so called Bonsai Koi) - but I have yet to see them in the US. Would like to get a hold of some for the indoor pond (700 gallons). Our outdoor pond is subject to routine raids by a lazy osprey, so fish of any significant size do not survive too long out there.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I do not believe any lines of miniature sized koi exist. I believe the 'mini tosai' mentioned in the links are just very small tosai, which will grow, not miniature koi. There has been major marketing efforts in Japan for several years to get city dwellers to keep koi in aquaria. Some shops will even trade out koi for a small charge when the koi grows beyond a certain size. Articles about aquarium-keeping appear regularly in a number of Japanese trade magazines. I have not seen any mention of true miniature koi in any of these publications. There are some well-known breeders, such as Konishi, promoting a focus on aquaria to increase the domestic market in Japan. If there was a line of true miniature koi, I'm sure these breeders would be promoting it heavily.

    If there was a true miniature koi that would not exceed 6 inches (15cm), it would be in huge demand. Such a small koi might well prove to be compatible with water gardens!! ...Even a line that reliably max'ed out at 14 or 15 inches (35-40cm) would be very profitable... until everyone had some.

    Translation issues may be at the bottom of some of it.

  3. #3
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    I do not believe any lines of miniature sized koi exist. I believe the 'mini tosai' mentioned in the links are just very small tosai, which will grow, not miniature koi. There has been major marketing efforts in Japan for several years to get city dwellers to keep koi in aquaria. Some shops will even trade out koi for a small charge when the koi grows beyond a certain size. Articles about aquarium-keeping appear regularly in a number of Japanese trade magazines. I have not seen any mention of true miniature koi in any of these publications. There are some well-known breeders, such as Konishi, promoting a focus on aquaria to increase the domestic market in Japan. If there was a line of true miniature koi, I'm sure these breeders would be promoting it heavily. If there was a true miniature koi that would not exceed 6 inches (15cm), it would be in huge demand. Such a small koi might well prove to be compatible with water gardens!! ...Even a line that reliably max'ed out at 14 or 15 inches (35-40cm) would be very profitable... until everyone had some.Translation issues may be at the bottom of some of it.
    A few in the States have tried a number of years ago.....one gentleman even attempted to register the names "Toy Koi" and "Bonsai Koi" (as I recall) should his experiment pan out.....It didn't......But the names still sound cool.....

  4. #4
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Dwarf/Miniature Koi Lines - US-img-20140129-wa0001.jpgDwarf/Miniature Koi Lines - US-img-20140129-wa0005.jpg
    does this count?

  5. #5
    Fry
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    That's unfortunate. Over the years, I have had several koi which might be considered natural dwarves (seem to stop growing at around 12-16 inches, while the rest of the fish in the ponds continued to grow much larger) - just never had the facilities to attempt to breed them true and when I would move...never knew for certain if I would have a pond at the new place (prior military, so we moved every few years).

    Will continue my hunt though, if they can make a poodle into a teacup, they should be able to make a koi into a red tailed labeo.

  6. #6
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    So does it follow that you will next want show classes 1BU, 2BU, 3BU, and 4BU?

  7. #7
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Short of genetic modification, breeders would have toi get into the habit of winnowing the dwarves from regular fry, the problem is that the giant fry would beat them to it lol

  8. #8
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    I think that if you grow koi fry in conditions where to be small would favor their survival, over generations this natural selection process would create the dwarf koi you want. It would be a robust and biologically strong subspecies of koi as opposed to genetically modified dwarf koi.

  9. #9
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    So does it follow that you will next want show classes 1BU, 2BU, 3BU, and 4BU?
    Thats too funny. I think the judges would need magnifying glasses for the 1bu class
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  10. #10
    Nisai
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    Common here in India

    Quote Originally Posted by jnorth View Post
    That's too funny. I think the judges would need magnifying glasses for the 1bu class
    Well this is common here in India , All fish sold as carp never achieve more than 10 inches .... You never find Nisikigoi here other than INdian members of thsi form ... (There is only one true breeder as far as I am aware ) .

    Rest of the country does not even know about nisikigoi ....(the imported ones are called "Koi Carps" by the way).

    I had initially thought that "fish grew only as big as the tank" and that Even if i put them in properly maintained pond they would grow no more than 8" to 10"...

    So they don't have the genetics ...
    Here is a "breeding pair " selection ,Note this picture is from a well respected breeder & this is the way they have been breeding for years ....So no insults pls ,,

    Dwarf/Miniature Koi Lines - US-10292339_795275927163453_5259211905417511994_n.jpg

    I am sure this beats everything you guys have seen with KOI ....

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