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Thread: Koi evaluation from two different eyes

  1. #1
    Sansai Reza's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
    Tehran - Iran

    Koi evaluation from two different eyes

    I think there is two way of evaluation a koi quality and factors.First one is evaluation from breeder's eye, and second one is evaluation from a Judge's eye.
    May be I'm wrong and may be not.

    If its true, I will be appropriated if anyone could guide me more and discus some about the evaluation factors and their differences in those point of view.


  2. #2
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Many Japanese breeders are seasoned shinkokai judges in Japan and in different parts of the world where they get invited. The difference is that in shows most of the time the winners is based on the quality competition during the day and the finish of the koi. In lower sizes, a cheaper koi of a particular size can win over a much more expensively priced koi of same size by the breeder because the more expensive koi is not intended to compete in that particular size.

    Now the difference between breeder shinkokai and some hobbyist judges is that breeders are exposed to much more koi in their lifetime as compared to the hobbyist judge as such the eye of the breeder IMO is much better. It is not true that they will vote for a much more expensive koi in favor to another koi of lesser value.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
    Orlando, Florida
    My observation of breeder-judges is very limited. My observation of dealer-judges is little more, but still limited. I have mostly observed hobbyist-judges trained under either the AKJA (formerly AKCA) or ZNA systems. So, my sense of the difference in how they differ comes from limited personal observation and is necessarily influenced by statements made by others and my thoughts drawn from judging results published in magazines and on the internet. Overall, I do not perceive much difference in the 'easy' decisions. It is in the close competitions that something of a different balancing of traits comes out. I think there is a tendency for hobbyist-judges to fall back on 'rules' ('standards') taught in the training process in deciding close questions. So, little negatives get more weight. Breeders seem to give less weight to the little negatives and more to quality factors. Dealer-judges are somewhat all over the place. Perhaps this is because their experiences differ according to the segment of the market they serve, and the degree to which they spend time in Japan observing high level koi?

    The hobbyist-judge can be praised for staying with the standards of evaluation, or criticized for letting 'rules' blind them to the accomplishment of the whole koi. The breeder-judge gets criticized for allowing the future of a koi to blind them to the reality of the day, and praised for having the best eye for recognizing quality. The dealer-judge gets a lot of behind-their back whispering that their decisions are influenced by business relationships... which, if true, may not be nefarious but because the dealer is most attuned to the koi types produced by the breeders with whom the dealer has close relationships.

    Perhaps there is benefit in the approaches of both the hobbyist-judge and the breeder-judge? ...If it would ever happen that a koi of mine won GC at a major show, it would be all the more pleasing if she was a Showa with the judging team being composed of the top Showa breeders of Japan. But, then somebody would say the Kohaku would have won if the judging team had not been composed of Showa breeders. [It's not going to happen! LOL]
    Appliance Guy and Reza like this.

  4. #4
    Sansai Reza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Tehran - Iran
    Very thanks for mike, I think, When a breeder looks a fish he will see some different thing that a hobbyist or a dealer may do not see. They will see body confirmation pattern and color quality factors but a breeder will see its breeding potential for next years and may be its final growth potential.

    I was not in any show but I have connection with dealers and breeders.In my land, Dealers are looking for market and specially their costumers, they always say "a costumer will come back and may buy new koi that he has not yet". They try each season to have different colors of fish. Dealers almost have less money spending problems than hobbyists, so they may also buy cheap to high priced fishes for all range of costumers. In other hand most of koi hobbits try to buy best with less. I am not sure that is true or not in every where.

    All Over the internet has very expensive fishes that never wins any award or even some times never entered in a show, But they are eye catching which are in dealer or an agent's hand.

    What I mean and try to find is, a ruler is in each group's hand. this ruler may be is the "standards" but every thing about the koi could not be measured by one ruler, and some other things may are important for each group that will become bold in decision making.

    may be I am really and totally wrong.

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