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Thread: Selecting Oyagoi

  1. #21
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    This topic makes me wonder if domestic US breeders outside Japan would even purchase a 100,000 dollars above female gosanke oyagoi in Japan?

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    Yes. I've seen many.

  2. #22
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    I once had a conversation with Scott Purdin specifically discussing male contributions of beni in Goshiki. In a round about way he said that it is only a "feel" for what each has to offer and from there it is a guess. Granted the breeders "guess" has the benefit of history, but a guess nevertheless.... I remember him saying that it is a matter of finding the female beni type you want and then finding a male that can "compliment" her type.

    One thing I am also surprised at is how nature affects breeding. I kinda thought of it to be a more sterile, contrived event that is very static. What I find is that the is more art and "feel" to it than rigid scheduling. I've learned that males and females are conditioned before breeding. Bill once told me that they have a few females they have throw better when they are placed in a smaller tank, yet not females do this. Recently I saw male koi placed in the mud ponds to "get them horny". Getting to know your oyagoi is crucial. Of course then you have weather and natural environment to work with. Again, I'm always surprised on how it is more feel than anything. It takes a certain breeder mentallity to put the pieces of the puzzle together and make it work.

  3. #23
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Having culled thousands (maybe millions?) of koi, attribution of sex based genetics is not really scientific, but based on culling skill, the experience of memory and heavily weighted to Gosanke - I suspect professional breeders are likewise skewed to linebred Gosanke, with pattern already well weighted through selective breeding. Perhaps the culling and selective process has deliberately put males in a place, where the most they can contribute has always been pattern and this has been re-inforced. If we could start over, I suspect we could just as easily put females in command of adding more to pattern than is already believed. In my own record keeping I do have females that produce very good numbers of well patterned keepers, regardless of the male.

  4. #24
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Yes. I've seen many.

    Many?? ... In the U.S.? .... Well, I'm not privy to the amounts spent by the couple of domestic breeders who have the means.
    ricshaw likes this.

  5. #25
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
    Having culled thousands (maybe millions?) of koi, attribution of sex based genetics is not really scientific, but based on culling skill, the experience of memory and heavily weighted to Gosanke - I suspect professional breeders are likewise skewed to linebred Gosanke, with pattern already well weighted through selective breeding. Perhaps the culling and selective process has deliberately put males in a place, where the most they can contribute has always been pattern and this has been re-inforced. If we could start over, I suspect we could just as easily put females in command of adding more to pattern than is already believed. In my own record keeping I do have females that produce very good numbers of well patterned keepers, regardless of the male.
    I believe females contribute as much to pattern as males... in the total spawn. While pattern is random, there are pattern tendencies that come through. A menkaburi produces more menkaburi than oyagoi from lines where menkaburi have been consistently culled. (Or, so I've been told.) If the final selections from a spawn favor the male parent in pattern, I think that has more to do with the eye of the person culling than some sex link. Your observation of your own work with that female is consistent. However, like so many Aussie hobbyists, you have long experience with breeding. If you observed a consistent sex-linked pattern transference, it would be important to note.

  6. #26
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Many?? ... In the U.S.? .... Well, I'm not privy to the amounts spent by the couple of domestic breeders who have the means.
    Yep, more than several...

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