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Thread: Selecting Oyagoi

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Selecting Oyagoi

    Mark Gardner has posted about a possible oyagoi matching at Purdin Koi Farm, where he was visiting recently. He covers so many aspects of oyagoi selection in a conversational tone, I thought it worth linking here.

    A Showa match made in heaven......? ยป Nishikigoi.Life

  2. #2
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    I find the article though insightful, it is lacking in substances and expert breeder opinion. Why not show the present female oyagoi along with the male oyagois and explain according to the breeder(Purdin) why they selected the present male and female oyagoi instead of Mark guessing and showing an example of a future potential female(still young) and male(which in his opinion can win in Ajks?) while describing the attributes he sees as if he is the breeder or has lots of experience being a successful breeder. Describing quality traits at a certain age is good for koishow but does not necessarily mean its best to be used as oyagoi. What if the male stopped growing or the beni is shortlived or prone to hikui, would the breeder not consider these issues.

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    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    I find the article lacking in substances. Why not show the present female oyagoi along with the male oyagois and explain according to the breeder(Purdin) why they selected the present male and female oyagoi instead of Mark guessing and showing an example of a future potential female(still young) and male(which in his opinion can win in Ajks?) while describing the attributes he sees as if he is the breeder. He should also note that many breeders even in Japan pick out tategoi that can be use as future oyagoi but once they have used them the results are not good.

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    I wouldn't expect a short article to be within the scope of describing the selections and as to why, AND with pictures. Are you kidding? You are right in that there are successes and failures. On the farm there are known succesful oyagoi combos being used as well as new combos being tried. Mark was merely showing two very lovely koi that could very well indeed throw crap. But you sure have to start somewhere.

    Breeding is trial and error. There is no magic formula. Obviously over time a breeder begins to know what the koi throws, but that's only part of it. Maybe the koi throws good koi but they crap out and break down quickly? What if they never get to size? These things you do not know for years. Throughout Purdin Koi Farm there are many, many candidates, but like any breder- from Dainichi to homebred- it is all about space. So you use your feel of the koi and take a shot.

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    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    I wouldn't expect a short article to be within the scope of describing the selections and as to why, AND with pictures. Are you kidding? You are right in that there are successes and failures. On the farm there are known succesful oyagoi combos being used as well as new combos being tried. Mark was merely showing two very lovely koi that could very well indeed throw crap. But you sure have to start somewhere.

    Breeding is trial and error. There is no magic formula. Obviously over time a breeder begins to know what the koi throws, but that's only part of it. Maybe the koi throws good koi but they crap out and break down quickly? What if they never get to size? These things you do not know for years. Throughout Purdin Koi Farm there are many, many candidates, but like any breder- from Dainichi to homebred- it is all about space. So you use your feel of the koi and take a shot.
    Like I said , the article lacked substance and real opinions of a breeder to make it an interesting read. Instead I just saw 2 lovely showas and in Mark's (who is not a breeder) journalistic opinion would make good future oyagois of the farm base on his sound judgement? He already visited the farm why not just take a picture of the showa oyagoi and let the breeder describe why they chose it as their oyagoi instead of 2 showa who may or not make it as future oyagoi.

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    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Just some of the males used....


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Selecting Oyagoi-087.jpg   Selecting Oyagoi-196.jpg   Selecting Oyagoi-181.jpg   Selecting Oyagoi-140.jpg   Selecting Oyagoi-040.jpg  

    Selecting Oyagoi-083.jpg  

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    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Just some of the males used....


    Now thats better Tim. Any picture of the female oyagois used?

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    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=sacicu;220179]I find the article though insightful, it is lacking in substances and expert breeder opinion. Why not show the present female oyagoi along with the male oyagois and explain according to the breeder(Purdin) why they selected the present male and female oyagoi instead of Mark guessing and showing an example of a future potential female(still young) and male(which in his opinion can win in Ajks?) while describing the attributes he sees as if he is the breeder or has lots of experience being a successful breeder. Describing quality traits at a certain age is good for koishow but does not necessarily mean its best to be used as oyagoi. What if the male stopped growing or the beni is shortlived or prone to hikui, would the breeder not consider these issues.

    They are the rock stars of US koi breeding who have thousands of fans and not just because of their fish but the unselfish sharing of their knowledge. You would have to come to the Florida show to understand why the article was written.
    Regards
    Eugene
    sacicu likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    I find the article though insightful, it is lacking in substances and expert breeder opinion. Why not show the present female oyagoi along with the male oyagois and explain according to the breeder(Purdin) why they selected the present male and female oyagoi instead of Mark guessing and showing an example of a future potential female(still young) and male(which in his opinion can win in Ajks?) while describing the attributes he sees as if he is the breeder or has lots of experience being a successful breeder. Describing quality traits at a certain age is good for koishow but does not necessarily mean its best to be used as oyagoi. What if the male stopped growing or the beni is shortlived or prone to hikui, would the breeder not consider these issues.

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    I'm glad you found the article insightful.

    In the fullness of time the Purdin oyagoi will be introduced.

    Sorry you don't feel I have any experience to discuss oyagoi, I have witnessed many spawning, seen many oyagoi and 100,000's of thousands of offspring, and discussed the subject with many breeders.

    With regards to the male, pray tell in your opinion how long one should wait to find out whether the male has stopped growing or has hikui?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    Like I said , the article lacked substance and real opinions of a breeder to make it an interesting read. Instead I just saw 2 lovely showas and in Mark's (who is not a breeder) journalistic opinion would make good future oyagois of the farm base on his sound judgement? He already visited the farm why not just take a picture of the showa oyagoi and let the breeder describe why they chose it as their oyagoi instead of 2 showa who may or not make it as future oyagoi.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

    The breeder, who has invested millions on dollars on his farm, spent many days, weeks and months in Japan learning from breeders, as I have, values my opinion and consideration far more that you it seems. Cest la vie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    Like I said , the article lacked substance and real opinions of a breeder to make it an interesting read. Instead I just saw 2 lovely showas and in Mark's (who is not a breeder) journalistic opinion would make good future oyagois of the farm base on his sound judgement? He already visited the farm why not just take a picture of the showa oyagoi and let the breeder describe why they chose it as their oyagoi instead of 2 showa who may or not make it as future oyagoi.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    sacicu, never been a fan of anonymous conversations and there is no indication of who you are, other than coming from Philippines. Out of interest do we know each other?

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