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Thread: Koi on it's side

  1. #1
    Fry
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    May 2016
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    Koi on it's side

    Hello,

    I am new here and I hope I'm posting in the correct area. I went home today to find one of my koi on the bottom of the floor on its side. Thinking it was dead I fished it out. During the process I saw that it's mouth had moved. I bowled the fish and added an air stone in it. The fish seems to be "breathing" more frequently now but still laying on its side.

    Tested the water - everything is normal except alkaline is low and ph is 6.4.

    Did water change for pond. Added water treatment and some baking soda. I added a water treatment and added in 0.5% salt in the bowl with the sick koi.

    Upon further examination, it looks like a nasty ulcer had developed on the inside of its mouth but its gills and mouth are still moving - still on its side. It'll wiggle away when I try to set it upright.

    IS there anything I can do to save it?

    Thank you so much in advance,

    Kimmi

  2. #2
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    What do you mean "alkaline is low?"

    What do you mean by "everything is normal" with water?

    As to the ulcer, how can you see it if i's inside the mouth? Might it be a wound from being bitten on the mouth by a bird or an insect? What was the koi's condition a day before?

    How are the rest of the koi doing? Do you notice any change in their behavior?

  3. #3
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    sounds like a systemic bacterial infection. Don't let the fish suffer if possible.

  4. #4
    Fry
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    Hello All,

    Thanks for your replies. I cleaned out his mouth ulcer with iodine and dipped him in tricide neo as a last resort.

    Fish is actually alive today and not on its side and is just hanging around. He is in a tub that's been salted. We are monitoring him. We are having a vet come by and to do some scrapes and samples just in case this weekend for our pond... At this point do you still think euthanize is necessary?

    Examining the rest of the stock, I found one with a very small ulcer on its back. Dipped in tricide neo and swapped with iodine and a dab of gel iodine. The other fish are fine and seem healthy no noticeable ulcers from what I can see so far. I netted a few and tried to check their bellies just in case but nothing out of the ordinary.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Since there is another koi with an ulcer, there is a higher likelihood of a bacterial infection from your pond water. Water change is good, but to be more certain the other koi don't follow, a thorough filter cleaning is necessary. Salting certainly helps, but if the filter is left uncleaned, the source of bacterial infection remains.

    Someone else more familiar with use of antibiotics could probably comment on your use of antibiotics. In the situation your koi was in, it was good to have an effective antibiotic on hand.

    Kimmi, where are you at?

  6. #6
    Fry
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    Hi Yerrag,

    I'm in Washington state - east-side. I am thinking about replacing the filters after the vet comes and takes a look.

    Occasionally I wouldn't shoot blind with antibiotics, but didn't have a scope on hand or anyone to help me that night, saw an ulcer, and just tried it out of sheer desperation. It worked so seems to be bacterial? But again, hopefully vet will have a more definite answer. Just sent scrape samples to him beforehand so hoping for quicker response.

    I'm concerned with losing good bacteria when I change out the filters, so would using the pet store bacteria they sell help? I was looking online and came across this blog:

    https://blog.thepondguy.com/2009/06/...ding-june-6th/

    He mentions PL gel and I've never used it before. Would it be appropriate to use or do you have another product that would help with the beneficial bacterias?

    Again thank you,

    Kimmi

  7. #7
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with PL gel either. As for beneficial bacteria, it is a good thing to have if you believe that bacteria is a necessary component of pond life. I use em1 which is sold by Teragenix in the US. It was developed by a Japanese researcher, the name escapes me now, and Teragenix isngiven the license to produce and sell it. I find it hard to be an expert in describing the kind of bacteria it is classified as but suffice it to say that it has many uses. It out competed algae by eating its food source, which are nitrogenous by-products such as nitrate. It also neutralizes pathogens by shifting the balance of microorganisms in the pond toward a healthy ecosystem. It helps keep anaerobic conditions from turning pathogenic and putrefactive. However, it does not replace good filter maintenance and cleaning.

    On cleaning the filter, it's wise to not overdo the cleaning as good bacteria can be destroyed. Assuming your system is a brush and mat system, the brush you can clean thoroughly with tap water. No need to save any bacteria in the brushes. With the jap mats, these are where the nitrifier bacteria resides, which does the biological filtration. Clean it with pond water instead ofbtap water, as tap water has chlorine. Use a strong enough pressure to dislodge waste from it. Don't leave it dirty, as it's not true those brown stuff are.nitrifier bacter. The nitrifier bacteria are still in the crevices, and don't so as well with all that gunk. Just be careful not to spray too strongly, especially when using high-pressure washers, or else you will end dislodging plenty of the nitrifiers.

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