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Thread: Judging Shusui

  1. #11
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    According to multiple authors, shusui evidently means “autumn water”. What's in a name? Water and blue correlate. Autumn and yellow, red and orange correlate with the colors of leaves in autumn.
    The water's color in autumn may take another color apart from blue, such that as it reflects the blue sky, it also reflects the autumn colors of yellow, red, and orange. When something reflects blue, it absorbs yellow. Yellow, blue. Red, cyan. And orange, blue and cyan. So, the water, in effect, absorbs red, yellow, blue, cyan, and other colors of the spectrum - though not as fully as what a black objects does. The varying levels of reflection of each color would come out to some sort of gray. And it the blue reflecton is stronger, it would give a bluish cast to the gray.

    So, perhaps we need to take the gray swatches of a Pantone color chart, and lay them beside the koi, and determine what how we would describe that gray. Is it reddish or is it bluish? Perhaps it would be acceptable to Ueda-San if that gray has a bluish cast?

  2. #12
    Sansai
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    Google Shusui.

    Press images

    All the patterns and colours you could wish for.

    Garfield

  3. #13
    Fry
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    Indeed, laminated, submersible “official koi-color-charts” might sell nicely at koi shows. Surely, they would forever end arguments on where gray ends and blue starts or where orange ends and red starts.

    Conveniently, some anecdotal “truth” could be floated, supposedly shared originally by a Japanese grower, surely old as Methuselah: one day, long, long ago, a grower sat by his pond in autumn with a big jug of plum wine. While pondering a nameless, pretty, new type of koi, a gentle breeze cast beautiful autumn leaves upon the surface of the pond. This prompted a eureka moment: “Shusui!”

  4. #14
    Fry
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
    Google Shusui.

    Press images

    All the patterns and colours you could wish for.

    Garfield
    I wished for blue. Unfortunately, of the 200 shusui surveyed, 199 showed no blue. The one that did have some blue tint seemed to have been “helped along” with a quick color hue adjustment in any image editor.

  5. #15
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zucht View Post
    Although Ueda-san's opinion is respected, it may not sit well with other experts...
    Not all "experts" are equal. I put certified Koi judges, Japanese Koi breeders, and Shinkokai Koi dealers at the top.

  6. #16
    Tosai Alexandre's Avatar
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    Hi, I know that there's a kind of complete blue shusui, that is very old, named Zuiun (auspicious clouds). All blue shusui are not valuable for koi show but they can be nice fishes for your pond. I also know that Blackwater creek produces blue shusui (saphirre koi) as a special blue metallic koi (they are famous in US). Off course they don't have red patterns but they tend to have a stable blue. Classic shusui with blue, often tend to become black. That's why many japanese shusui have a white skin with just blue scales (to be stable in color during many years).

    Koi have a mode, and it varies greatly on such détailS.

    ++

  7. #17
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
    I was just curious to see what colour your particular shusui looked like.

    Garfield
    Same shusui- 15 months ago, 3 months agol- Gosai, bought as tosai. Now at 70 cm. Dorsal scales not as abundant and as even- hope as it ages more, they can come up, fingers crossed. Clean head though.

    Upon closer examination, the gray could be described as bluish.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Judging Shusui-no.134-65cm-shusui-vat44.jpg   Judging Shusui-uploadfromtaptalk1459037105770.jpg  

  8. #18
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    There are tosai Shusui that are truly sky blue in color. They are gorgeous. The blue color is an optical effect of sumi underlying thin juvenile skin. It gradually becomes a grayish blue and eventually more gray than blue. You can see a similar effect in some Soragoi which in cool water are a light gray with a bluish cast, and become a darker gray in warm water with no hint of blue at all. I have seen a few young nisai Shusui that were sort of blue in the right light. I cannot recall any having an actual blue color as sansai.

    Most Shusui eventually become rather dirty looking with smudges and blotches of a sooty gray. It is rare for a Shusui to reach 75cm and be in show condition. If you look at a large batch of Shusui at 3 months of age, you will see that many are darkish. Relatively few have the good looks desired. The breeders cull the dark ones whose sumi is rising too soon to produce a marketable fish. Over many generations of using the lighter ones as parents, we now see Shusui whose body color is closer to white than to gray (although the zipper scales tend to be a dark blue, similar to Asagi). Supposedly these light ones last longer before maturing sumi results in smudges. But, their beauty is in their clean colors.... the absence of smudges, not in the blue color tones that draw the eye to the bright tosai.

    Ueda-san's views will undoubtedly influence how Shusui are viewed by judges, but I would not assume that judges will automatically follow his thinking in making their final decisions. Judging standards tend to evolve slowly. There are few inflexible 'rules'. Each judging team at each show reaches its own conclusion as to the koi entered in that particular show. Their discussions influence how each views various traits. As the judges intermingle at show after show, and at their training seminars, a sort of consensus evolves as to what is positive and what is not. Breaking with that consensus in small particulars at one show does not create a new standard or new weighting of factors. Change occurs slowly over the course of many years and numerous shows and numerous judging teams examining many koi. I expect Ueda-san's comments will cause judges to think a bit more about what he has said as they evaluate Shusui. Perhaps some will alter the weight they give to one factor or another. It will not change the end result unless others on a judging team also adopt a different weighting. If they do, and other judging teams at other shows also follow that different weighting, a new standard incrementally arises. ...Or, it doesn't.

  9. #19
    Fry
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    yerrag:
    A very beautiful shusui (in my humble layperson's opinion). Congrats.

  10. #20
    Tosai Alexandre's Avatar
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    Yep, it's a very nice shusui, you can be proud of it. I believe that this koi will keep a stable bluish grey =)

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