Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: KHV: Irresponsible People And Ignorance

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128

    KHV: Irresponsible People And Ignorance

    I do not often publicly accuse folks of being irresponsible. Today, I am. National Fish Pharmacy should be ashamed of itself. I'll explain why, but first....

    There is not much posted about KHV anymore. Koikeepers seem to have gotten adjusted to the fact it is around and accept it as not particularly newsworthy. Do not let the absence of posts about KHV outbreaks cause you to think it has gone away. It has not. Check around the boards and FB groups and you will find outbreaks continue to occur. Among high-end koikeepers who patronize only well-known koi dealers carrying imports from Japan or the few truly serious koi breeders in the U.S., KHV may seem a distant memory. After SFF had its infamous outbreak, the Japanese koi industry and hobbyists took bio-security very seriously. They did not publicize the massive exterminations carried out, but quietly did all they could to rid their production of the virus. The leading U.S. breeders did likewise. The bio-security practiced by the likes of Quality Koi and Purdin Koi can give confidence. The leading U.S. dealers have been following recommended best practices for several years now. These stalwarts of the hobby's production chain have kept our hobby viable. But, not everyone is so responsible. Most of the reports of KHV I have come across in the past couple of years have concerned pondkeepers who acquired some of their koi from 'rescuing' koi left in a pond when a house was sold, or from an unknown Ebay/Craigslist seller. The acquisition may have been many months before the outbreak, and it may not be possible to pinpoint the source, but there always seems to be such an acquisition in the pond. Gift koi should not be readily accepted.

    In the U.S., KHV is considered endemic. That is, it is everywhere. Studies have shown its presence in carp populations all across the country. It makes local headlines when there is a mass die-off, but these are seldom reported in broader media unless truly massive. And, often by the time lab tests are done, the die-off is over and no longer newsworthy for the general media. You probably did not hear about the 2012 outbreak in a single Missouri lake: "According to the Missouri Department of Conservation, a die-off of common carp in a Missouri lake was caused by the koi herpes virus (KHV) . Approximately 16,000 common carp died at Blue Springs Lake the week just before Memorial Day." Or, the 2014 outbreak in Wisconsin that lasted over a month: " August 19, 2014 | From Rock River Trail - To our friends downstream on the Rock River: A widespread die off of common carp began the later part of July in the upper reaches of the Rock River at the Horicon Marsh and Lake Sinissippi in Dodge County, Wisconsin. Wisconsin DNR evaluated water conditions and did not discover any factor of temperature, dissolved oxygen, etc that might have caused the die off. Bacterial or viral infection was suspected. Samples of the carcasses were evaluated by the DNR and sent to the US Fish and Wildlife Service-Fish Health Center in La Crosse, Wisconsin. The test results were positive for Koi herpes virus, which is specific for members of the Cyprinidae family including the common carp. Other fish species do not appear to be affected. Last week the carp die off reached the river stretch at Watertown and just a few days ago large numbers of dead carp were reported in Fort Atkinson in Jefferson County. So in four weeks or so the virus has remained virulent and spread downstream about 100 miles. Soon it will likely affect carp in Lake Koshkonong and presumably continue to move downstream. *** So depending on air temperatures going forward, the virus may reach Illinois in the next week or so. *** Also attached is an information brochure regarding safe methods of disposal of dead animals. We’ve advised folks to remove the fish carcasses from their shoreline and dispose of them by burial, composting, incineration or rendering. Always wear gloves when handling the dead fish since secondary bacterial infections are common. Should a fish die off occur in your area, depending on the number of fish involved the aesthetics can be a bit unpleasant for a while. However, the infected fish normally die in 24-48 hours and the effects will pass as the carcasses decompose and disintegrate. We on Lake Sinissippi are no longer seeing evidence of the die off and the lake (river) condition has returned to normal."

    So, why am I calling out National Fish Pharmacy? .... Because of the following which appears on their website:


    K.H.V. Koi Herpes Virus

    Contrary to popular belief, there is a cure. The fish will be healed and back to normal if you read the steps below. You need to change your thoughts and rather treat the fish like they have a cold, or pneumonia. If you can think about it that way, you can see that there would be a way to fix the problem. ***
    Heat Therapy For K.H.V., The Only Effective Treatment Known [The site then goes into detail on treating the KHV-infected fish by raising the water temperature to 86F and maintaining that temperature for 7 days. Then, the temperature is reduced to 80F and it is recommended that the hobbyist use their various antibiotic and formalin products to deal with the secondary infections for a minimum of two weeks and perhaps three. ]

    Will The Koi Be Carriers Of This Virus After Healing?

    No. There is too much mis-information circulating around on the internet about Koi being carriers of KHV for life after they have had it. This is not like human herpes. If it was, we would send you to the vet to get a prescription for Valtrex when the fish has flare-ups. Do not believe everything you read out there. From what we have seen, the virus that the Koi get is similar to a human cold. When you get sick with pneumonia for example, your mucous turns green and you become very ill. Sometimes you can get a secondary bacterial infection which makes you run a fever. This secondary bacterial infection is treated with antibiotics by your doctor. The same goes for the fish folks."

    The mis-information is on their website. The latency of the KHV virus has been established in the studies made by Dr. Jin and colleagues at Oregon State University. The abstract from one study is very clear:

    "Koi herpesvirus (KHV) has recently been classified as a member of the family of Alloherpesviridae within the order of Herpesvirales. One of the unique features of Herpesviridae is latent infection following a primary infection. However, KHV latency has not been recognized. To determine if latency occurs in clinically normal fish from facilities with a history of KHV infection or exposure, the presence of the KHV genome was investigated in healthy koi by PCR and Southern blotting. KHV DNA, but not infectious virus or mRNAs from lytic infection, was detected in white blood cells from investigated koi. Virus shedding was examined via tissue culture and reverse transcription-PCR (RT-PCR) testing of gill mucus and feces from six koi every other day for 1 month. No infectious virus or KHV DNA was detected in fecal secretion or gill swabs, suggesting that neither acute nor persistent infection was present. To determine if KHV latent infections can be reactivated, six koi were subjected to a temperature stress regime. KHV DNA and infectious virus were detected in both gill and fecal swabs by day 8 following temperature stress. KHV DNA was also detectable in brain, spleen, gills, heart, eye, intestine, kidney, liver, and pancreas in euthanized koi 1 month post-temperature stress. Our study suggests that KHV may become latent in leukocytes and other tissues, that it can be reactivated from latency by temperature stress, and that it may be more widespread in the koi population than previously suspected."

    The University of Florida has a paper on KHV distributed in the aquaculture industry that has been widely re-published, including by the University of Arizona (where NHP manufactures its products):

    "Is There Treatment for KHV?
    There is no treatment for KHV. Antiviral drugs are not available to treat KHV or any other viral diseases of cultured fish. Studies have shown that koi may survive an outbreak of KHV if water temperatures are increased to 86°F (30°C) during the outbreak (Ronen et al. 2003). However, this technique only marginally increases survival rates, and artificially raising water temperatures above 80°F in holding facilities may result in an increased occurrence of other more common bacterial and parasitic diseases. High water temperatures are not generally recommended for routine husbandry and management of koi and common carp. In addition, and more importantly, koi which survive a KHV outbreak or those exposed at high water temperatures will become carriers of the virus. These carrier koi are a source of the disease to susceptible fish when conditions are appropriate for viral shedding and infection. Carrier fish will typically not succumb to KHV disease or show signs of clinical infection."

    We hobbyists know from either personal experience or observing the misfortunes of others that KHV pops up when outwardly healthy koi are added to a pond and water temperatures rise to a permissible range. The science now exists to support what we have observed. KHV survivors are KHV carriers.

    And, I will point my finger of shame at ol' Doc Johnson over at Koi Vet. He has long espoused the view that survivors be kept, not exterminated. He bemoans euthanizing beloved pets. He does recognize that they 'may' be carriers, so he recommends that whenever getting new koi the heat treatment be employed after the new koi have been exposed, and the pond be kept segregated from all other koi... no gifting of fish, lending equipment, etc. I consider this misplaced soft-heartedness. The next time you hear about koi left in a pond at a sold house, you better hope the owner did not follow Doc Johnson's philosophy.
    KoiCop and coolwon like this.

  2. #2
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    Don't get me started on Doc. Nuff said.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    What we know we depend on experts, and experts don't agree. Tnis s a a matter of belief, and less a matter of certainty as determined by the gatekeepers of science. Do we agree on the need for vaccines? Yet the pro-vaccine side cites herd immunity to justify the need to vaccinate everyone, because the unvaccinated lessens herd immunity, and for that reason, everyone else is at risk, even those who are vaccinated. In our koi world, the onus is on those who elect to save their KHV-infected koi, because it increases the risk for the rest. I personally favor raising koi so that they are biologically strong. Raised well, they should have the immunity to counter onslaughts from both virus and bacteria. How do we know if KHV is not just latent, and already exists among our koi? Just like the common cold, the virus gets to express itself when conditions are ripe. Otherwise, it remains dormant.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    How do we know if KHV is not just latent, and already exists among our koi? Just like the common cold, the virus gets to express itself when conditions are ripe. Otherwise, it remains dormant.
    A person cannot know without testing. The work at Oregon State University establishes that detection of KHV DNA means the fish is a carrier even if the virus is not found. For the typical hobbyist, there cannot be absolute certainty. Going through seasonal changes over a year or two without an outbreak can give a pretty high level of confidence. Nonetheless, as the researchers point out in the abstract quoted above, the KHV virus may be much more widespread than generally thought. In my view, this underscores the need for hobbyists to remain vigilant. Far too often the absence of scary outbreak reports causes folks to become lax. They stop thinking about KHV when offered a koi being re-homed, or seeing something cute available from an unknown source. It is not many years since there were nearly constant warnings that a hobbyist learn the details of a dealer's bio-security before patronizing them. And, people did inquire. That is a rare thing now, but being mindful is just as important as ever.
    KoiCop likes this.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    Would it be paranoid, or would it be conservative, to just assume that KHV is lurking dormant in each of our koi? If one takes that view, then every koi pond not following good husbandry practices is at risk. Without knowing without the benefit of testing, pond keepers would be told simply that koi eventually die, and they move on. Maybe that would have been the better outcome. The koi keeper gets a wake-up call, and reforms his practices and improves his pond and filter design- if he's not taking the "koi die eventually" crap. If the koi doesn't get to die first before being sold, given away, or allowed to mingle with other koi (as used to be the case in koi shows of old), then it becomes a roll of the dice for the koi and the koi pond he gets home in. He could recover in good pond conditions, and nothing is heard. Or he could die in a pond that is marginally well-kept at best, taking along with a few koi already susceptible from poor husbandry.

    But koi coming home from koi shows, already weakened by the stresses - transport time, sub-optimal water conditions, fasting, possible infection from other koi (possibility is remote if koi show protocols are strictly followed). are particularly vulnerable. I learned my lesson this year with a koi winning a show prize and dying 2 months later. Truth be told, I could have done more to make my pond cleaner before I returned her from the show. A little slack in care, and four years of care goes down the drain.

    The KHV virus may be at play, but I'll never know. All I know is to not allow some slack in my care. The more laborious pond and filter maintenance is, the more likely for that slack to occur- especially when we're on vacation. Which is why pond filter tweaking and improvement is never finished for me. When the filter maintenance becomes an easy task, I will then take a break, but only in the redesign part. I won't stop cleaning and maintaining the filter.

    I think the best filter design when filter maintenance becomes fool-proof. You can ask a friend, a relative, a neighbor, a gardener, or even a stranger to follow a short set of instructions, and your filter -voila - is clean and renewed! No, if...or...then, no decisions to be made. Then you can have a worry-free vacation!

  6. #6
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    Would it be paranoid, or would it be conservative, to just assume that KHV is lurking dormant in each of our koi?
    It would be an unsubstantiated guess. And there would be no way to prove that without testing every koi. Ain't gonna happen.

  7. #7
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    Would it be paranoid, or would it be conservative, to just assume that KHV is lurking dormant in each of our koi?
    I doubt it.

    If a Koi stressed from a Koi Show dies from KHV... I think you would know it was KHV.

  8. #8
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    I doubt it.

    If a Koi stressed from a Koi Show dies from KHV... I think you would know it was KHV.
    How would you know?

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    It is very likely the koi would have the notched nose typical of KHV victims. You would see severe gill rot damage. Chances are high that other koi in pond would also have the symptoms. Koi that carry KHV are typically immune. It is their pond mates that are at risk.
    ricshaw likes this.

  10. #10
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    3,774
    Mike's post is spot on: There is no cure for Koi Herpes Virus (KHV). Infected koi who survive the heat treatment become lifelong KHV carriers and a threat to naive koi.

    As our own Brian Sousa wrote in his "Word from the Editor" in KOI BITO 10 (2005):

    Now that KHV appears poised to become pandemic, all but the most optimistic would tend to fear the worst. What will become of our beloved hobby? Rumors abound and the public is wary of buying. Although mostly unfounded, uncertaintity breeds fear, and in the wake of the events of the past few years, the present is a dangerous time for the existence of nishikigoi. Efforts have been underway to combat and keep this disease in check, yet we still have no vaccine to this day. If you're considering supporting further research, now is the time. The more we learn and understand, the greater the chance that we uncover the cure.
    Don Chandler
    Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Local people
    By koifishgirl in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-22-2016, 08:26 PM
  2. Larry, Oklahoma people
    By kntry in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-20-2010, 09:39 AM
  3. People what do you think about the Shiro grow out so far?
    By Seefdro Tvneik in forum Koi Grow Out
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-01-2008, 03:34 PM
  4. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-13-2008, 02:20 PM
  5. People and Faces at the AJKS
    By Russell Peters in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-04-2008, 11:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com