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Thread: Beneficial Green Water? A beginning of understanding

  1. #51
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    The old pond received morning sun from 8am to 11 am. The new pond gets sunlight from 10am to 1pm. The old pond has a 30 minute turnover while the new pond is around an hour turnover. In the old pond 5% of water is replaced a day. In the new pond 10 to 15 percent a week is changed only. Nitrates in both ponds are the same. Same feed quantity and exactly same number of koi. In the old pond the circulation of water or current is mich stronger.Wall surface of both ponds are same, painted with black epoxy.

    I forgot. Before in the old pond, i soak the food with enzyme/good bacteria with vitamins. Now i dont. Its possible that the enzyme/ lacto bacteria competes and reduce the nutrients that wall algae need to propogate.

    Another interesting thing is that I had many small snails getting captured in the old pond. No snails yet in the new pond.
    What I find most interesting is that with so much less fresh water being added, the nitrate level is remaining the same. It suggests that the consumption of ammonia by the algae has allowed roughly a 50% reduction in water use. If the nitrate level remains stable over the months ahead, I might be comfortable saying it seems probable.

    There are bacteria that seem to retard filamentous algae development. There are bacterial products promoted in the UK for combating string algae which a number of people credit with eliminating the nuisance (but some say it did no good for them). I've commented on my observation that string algae in my pond seems less robust if I add a so-called sludge remover bacterial concoction. I do not trust my own observation, so I'm not going to say anything more than it is an interesting idea that the enzyme/lacto bacteria soak, added at every feeding, might be a factor in your situation. My observation with the sludge remover concoction has been a retardation of growth of string algae, not elimination. But, I have not added it in continuous doses with every feeding.

    One might also theorize that the snails in your old pond consumed tender algae and kept it from forming a 'carpet'. I have used certain snails in my plant aquaria to get control over hair algae outbreaks. (In recent years I've relied more on the so-called Amano shrimp.) However, the snails never eliminated the algae entirely. They just kept it from taking over and becoming unsightly. If the walls of your old pond had a covering of velvet-like algae, then I'd be somewhat more inclined to think the snails had some material impact.

    It may be that the difference results from a combination of all of these factors... more intense light, absence of bacterial additives and absence of snails. And, it could be that there is something in your source water which contributed to retarding algae growth when continuously present through the constant in-flow, but not when introduced as a once per week water change. I cannot even guess what that could be, but it is another possible variable. (Some negligible amount of copper could have a negative effect on algae, but you would very likely have observed health issues with your koi, and I know that was not occurring.)

    I like a good mystery and you've got one. I'm baffled.

  2. #52
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Here another mystery and guess how it happened.

    Last night I put 3 newly aquired koi in a newly renovated pond. The 20 ton newly renovated pond underwent some concrete works, tiling and new paint job. The old mat and brushes filters were returned after they were thorough washed and sun dried in the roof for at least 3 months.
    80% of the water was taken from the new bigger pond that had been running for at least 3 months. The other 20% was taken from fresh city water. The combined water was crystal clear and remained clear without algae forming at all while it was aerated for 3 weeks before the 3 new koi were added.

    After the 3 koi were placed in the pond, around 40 kg of salt was added and then the pumps were started.
    Around 1pm the next day and with sunlight only moderate and water temperature was only around 25C and without feeding the new koi, the pond already started to turn green with visibility at around 3 ft only. To confirm that green water started already, I took underwater video and showed the water was green already.

    Question: Why did the water turned green immediately and so soon after just 3 koi were placed in a brand new pond?

  3. #53
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    My guess, these three koi were large koi. They weren't fed, yet they had to burn protein to satisfy their basal metabolism. Burning protein meant producing ammonia as waste. Ammonia wasn't readily converted to nitrate because your biofilter weren't fully cycled. Algae readily consumed the ammonia and multiplied.

  4. #54
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    My guess, these three koi were large koi. They weren't fed, yet they had to burn protein to satisfy their basal metabolism. Burning protein meant producing ammonia as waste. Ammonia wasn't readily converted to nitrate because your biofilter weren't fully cycled. Algae readily consumed the ammonia and multiplied.
    All the koi were fed by the dealer during their quarantine period. In fact they already grew bigger if I compared them when they arrived. Also compared to the total volume of the pond, 3 50cm koi are just few.

  5. #55
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    All the koi were fed by the dealer during their quarantine period. In fact they already grew bigger if I compared them when they arrived. Also compared to the total volume of the pond, 3 50cm koi are just few.
    3 weeks of water aeration- could there be plenty of algae spores seeded by the time you put in your koi?

  6. #56
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I am not surprised. You got to see how effective the greenwater algae are in using ammonia in even small amounts. You can skip 'new pond syndrome' by leaving off the UV. The water will clear as the bio-filter gets established. Just keep the population small until that occurs, and aerate to avoid overnight oxygen issues. You will not see your fish very well, but they may be more beautiful by the time the water clears.

  7. #57
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    I am not surprised. You got to see how effective the greenwater algae are in using ammonia in even small amounts. You can skip 'new pond syndrome' by leaving off the UV. The water will clear as the bio-filter gets established. Just keep the population small until that occurs, and aerate to avoid overnight oxygen issues. You will not see your fish very well, but they may be more beautiful by the time the water clears.
    Not really concerned with NPS with a horizontal flow filtration setup.

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