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Thread: May I know what type of this KOI is?

  1. #1
    Fry hoch.2008's Avatar
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    May I know what type of this KOI is?

    Hi guys,
    May I know what type of KOI is it?
    Worth to keep it?

    Thanks in advance
    Ho
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  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    It looks like a one off... not a recognized variety. The vaguely orangish hue, with deeper tones in the caudal fin is reminiscent of young Karashigoi, but not what I think of as Karashigoi. Since the Karashigoi label is now getting applied to all sorts of single color koi, somebody might call it that. Some might say it is a form of Chagoi, but I doubt it's parents were Chagoi. It is safe to say that it would be benched in kawarigoi class at a show.

  3. #3
    Tosai Alexandre's Avatar
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    Hi
    It looks like a kind of lightly metallic chagoi. I guess it's from a chagoi/karashigoi bloodline because the lower part of tail's fin is reddish. Some people in the USA call it ''golden dust chagoi'' (we can see some luster on the back of the fish and on the fins), Blackwater Creek produce that kind of fish, I think it's from a chagoi x ogon offspring (crossbreeding).
    Even in japan, there's some crossbred like this. It could also descend from a mukashi bloodline (many of them have some chagoi blood) and also show the red patch on the tail. I don't know what it will become but it could be interresting to see an evolution... You should ask to the dealer the origin of that koi.
    What about it's behaviour ? Is it friendly like a chagoi ?

    Here is a japanese chagoi selected by Kim's koi at Marusei koi farm (Hirasawa) this month which looks a little bit like yours (pale color- light metallic luster), but this one is prodigiously colossal (bonker) and has perfect fukurin with pearl ginrin , indeed in measures 80cm (4sai female) ! stunning



    Here is a chagoi with orange fins.

  4. #4
    Fry hoch.2008's Avatar
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    Dear All,

    Thank for your help.
    The dealer imported it from Japan and he told me it is a Chagoi, but I don't think so. This fish (about 30cm) really friendly even more friendly than a Chagoi, but most of the time it swim at it own and won't mix with other fish. (because other fishes scared of people moving close).
    Is it worth to keep it?

    p/s: this dealer has also imported some Kigoi and the other dealers seldom import the Kigoi from Japan.


  5. #5
    Tosai Alexandre's Avatar
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    Hi, you should refer to this excellent article (Chagoi Koi - Mr. Personality ) when you purchase a chagoi, I have just done some minor modifications to the original text (Nothing important) :


    Chagoi Koi = Mr. Personality



    If you want a fish with personality, look no further than the basic Chagoi. You’ll discover this pet is probably more intelligent than other koi in your pond too. It is almost universally agreed to be the friendliest of the koi classifications because it is the most aggressive at feeding time and almost always the first fish to become hand-tame. For this reason, the Chagoi is sometimes purchased solely for the purposes of taming the rest of a group, and not for its color. Once one fish starts eating from your hand, it’s not hard to bring the rest about.
    The Chagoi is basically a brown koi, however a brown koi is not necessarily a Chagoi. Within that distinction, there are levels of quality and the discovery of valuable traits. If the basic Chagoi is a brown koi, what about the different shades of brown? Let’s discuss these and the other traits that make a “good” Chagoi.
    Physical Characteristics :


    First, the fish should be big. Now, this doesn’t apply to the young fish, but you should be able to tell that the fish has been fat and robust all its life. As a young fish it should be an aggressive eater and it should be larger than all the other fish of the same age. As an adult, a Chagoi is prized most highly if it fulfills a destiny of great size – as much as 40 inches or more. That’s a big koi by any standard.

    The fish should be blocky in its body shape. The base of the tail (knuckle) should be thick and fat. The head and shoulders should be broad, and no part of the fish should be slender or streamlined. The pectorals should be large and paddle shaped, and there should be no splits in the fins or the dorsal fin. And the eyes of a Chagoi should be active and bright, with the corneas being crystal clear.
    A Fishnet Fish


    Let’s also consider the color and pattern. There are two patterns of Chagoi – “with fukurin” and “without fukurin.” Fukurin (foo’-kure-in) is when each scale is highlighted with a black edging, giving the fish a “fishnet” pattern over the brown coloration. This may be missing in scaleless Chagois and in some of the Chagoi colors. Personal preference will dictate which style you desire.

    With or without fukurin, the more “lined up” the scales are, the better the fish. For example, let’s say you have two Chagoi of exactly the same color and size. Both are chunky through the body and have large paddle-like pectoral fins. To determine the difference between the two, you would look at the alignment of the scales. If the rows were nice and straight like a corncob, then the fish with the straightest, most uniform rows would be awarded the point for scale pattern.
    With Diamond Shimmer

    Chagoi can also occur in a ginrin (jin’-rin or geen’-leen) scalation. This occurs when proteins inside the scale (under the epidermis) are thrown up in folds, refracting light and giving the scales a diamond shimmer. There’s nothing quite as nice as a Rootbeer Chagoi with ginrin in its scales. Ahhhh!
    Varying Shades of Brown

    The color of the Chagoi can vary and listed here are a few of the more popular options.
    Rootbeer Chagoi – There’s probably a fancy name for this color but it’s more fun to call them Rootbeer Chagoi. These Chagoi are brown, but it’s an intense, reddish-brown. Rootbeer Chagoi are available with and without fukurin.
    Green/''olive'' Chagoi – Green Chagoi tend to be the friendliest of all the Chagoi color varieties. This is probably because the green Chagoi always appear to be the hungriest. Secondly, even though the green Chagoi eventually turns brown, the green gives away (early) the fact that the fish is going to have truly masterful size. The best Chagoi when they are young, less than three to four years old, are tan-greenish. When the green Chagoi eventually turns brown, the final brown color it attains is an amber-blonde that is superior to the plain brown of the normal Chagoi. Green Chagoi also come with and without fukurin.
    Brown/''rootbeer'' Chagoi – If you have a brown Chagoi, it probably should have fukurin in it to define it from a common carp. The brown Chagoi is the most numerous of the Chagois and will make you very happy.

    Crossbred :

    Chagoi-Utsuri or Cha-Utsuri (oot-surr’-ee) –This fish is brown with a black fukurin pattern, but the fish is bruised with black smudges. The deeper and more distinct the black, and the more organized the pattern is, the better the fish is. Chagoi Utsuri exist with a weak black pattern that is unevenly spread over the body, and there are those that are very artistic-looking, with deep black markings evenly distributed from left to right and front to back. Such a fish should be bought on sight. You will rarely ever see these and regret goes a long way when you realize how rare these are.
    The Chagoi has relatives such as the Ochiba Shagure and the Sorogoi but, for now, as you consider getting a Chagoi, consider that while the fish has a humble color, it is in fact highly prized for redeeming traits such as size, scale alignment, and attitude. You will love your new Chagoi! And don’t forget, as with any new fish, please be sure to quarantine all new fish being added to your collection.

    RARELY SEEN :

    Metallic/golden dust chagoi are the result of chagoi/karashigoi x ogon offspring. Sometimes they are called Mukashi (fake name, mukashi are a kind of ancestral ogon not a crossbred) with unstable orange hue, you can recognize them by the red patch under their tail. I believe that yours is one of them with a copper shade, coudl be interresting to keep it, if it looks clean (skin quality, no shimi).

  6. #6
    Tosai Alexandre's Avatar
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    Here is an article about karashigoi (now konishi produces a lot of karashigoi x ogon koi).


    It's around 17 years since Joji Konshi at Konishi Koi Farm set about to create Karashigoi.
    A few years ago Chagoi became in vogue, everyone wanted to have jumbo Chagoi. A Karashigoi is usullaly said to be a cross between a Chagoi and Kigoi
    It's fair to say that Karashigoi have surpassed Chagoi now, and the demand for jumbo Karashigoi is even higher. When you see a 1m plus example up close, Doitsu or fully scaled, they are certainly an imposing sight.
    There is a misconception that creating single colour Koi is easy. For sure, making small ones maybe easy, however, when they get big everyone wants them to be perfect, scale perfect, immaculate in every way, that is the difficulty. For many years when people wanted to buy single coloured Koi it was perhaps most often the Yamabuki of Izumiya, and many times people would say that the trick is to find the one with the least imperfections, or imperfections you could live with. That very much remains true today with all single colour Koi, indeed, there are no perfect Koi of any variety, so buying always has an element of compromise, be it pattern, skin, body, or whatever.
    Whilst a number of breeders are now producing Karashigoi the home of the true giants (1m+) remains very much Konishi Koi Farm in Hiroshima.
    Makoto Konishi posted the following pictures of him carrying out the selection of Karashigoi after the tosai had been harvested a few days ago.




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