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Thread: Momotaro Auction, November 15, 2016

  1. #11
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    No, you are not doing a poor job of it. It really requires seeing lots and lots of koi in person, good koi and poor koi, for the pieces to come together. And, it is arbitrary for me to refer to three body types. Every koi fits on a range of body forms. I refer to three basic forms. Someone else might say seven. There is something in human nature that wants to categorize things to bring order to what seems to be chaos.

    By 'straights', I'm referring to the Matsunosuke body type, which was labeled 'cigar shaped' by somebody in the 1990s.

    The 'spindle shape' does not necessarily have a weak tail, but like any body form can be flawed on the individual fish.

    I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the importance of an even body silhouette, with no abrupt curves. It is a matter of having each area of the body in proportion to every other area. Any unevenness will be obvious if only you can make yourself look at the body silhouette without being diverted by pigment and pattern.... not as easily done as said!

    There is a lot of personal preference involved when looking at body forms. I do not particularly like the SFF blimp shape, but readily acknowledge such koi are really impressive because of their mass. I agree that at times the thickness of the tail joint can be off-putting. But, it is a body form that can carry great size and a thick tail is essential to overall proportionality. I consider the spindle shape the most graceful, but there are few koi with the spindle shape that grow in excess of 80cm without losing their figure. The 'straight' types are great for growth, but do not display bulk very well. Even with similar mass as a 'blimp', it is distributed differently. They are also rather stiff in their movement, so not particularly graceful. However, give a gosanke with a strongly Matsunosuke type body a really long pond, and despite the stiffness of their movement in other situations, they can shoot through the water like a rocket. The power and effortless speed is amazing. It's something other body types are not designed to do 'aerodynamically'. But, they need a really long pond and hardly any hobbyist has one. [Koi with the 'straight' body type are predominantly Sanke, but there are Showa in the Momotaro program with such bodies and some Kohaku from INC tend that direction also.]

  2. #12
    Fry
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    Hi Mike,
    #38 is one nice Showa. Do you know if the auction results will be posted or available on this site ? Thanks

  3. #13
    Sansai
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    #38 I've been waiting...for a girl like you.

    You are too gorgeous.

    Garfield

  4. #14
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    No, you are not doing a poor job of it. It really requires seeing lots and lots of koi in person, good koi and poor koi, for the pieces to come together. And, it is arbitrary for me to refer to three body types. Every koi fits on a range of body forms. I refer to three basic forms. Someone else might say seven. There is something in human nature that wants to categorize things to bring order to what seems to be chaos.

    By 'straights', I'm referring to the Matsunosuke body type, which was labeled 'cigar shaped' by somebody in the 1990s.

    The 'spindle shape' does not necessarily have a weak tail, but like any body form can be flawed on the individual fish.

    I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the importance of an even body silhouette, with no abrupt curves. It is a matter of having each area of the body in proportion to every other area. Any unevenness will be obvious if only you can make yourself look at the body silhouette without being diverted by pigment and pattern.... not as easily done as said!

    There is a lot of personal preference involved when looking at body forms. I do not particularly like the SFF blimp shape, but readily acknowledge such koi are really impressive because of their mass. I agree that at times the thickness of the tail joint can be off-putting. But, it is a body form that can carry great size and a thick tail is essential to overall proportionality. I consider the spindle shape the most graceful, but there are few koi with the spindle shape that grow in excess of 80cm without losing their figure. The 'straight' types are great for growth, but do not display bulk very well. Even with similar mass as a 'blimp', it is distributed differently. They are also rather stiff in their movement, so not particularly graceful. However, give a gosanke with a strongly Matsunosuke type body a really long pond, and despite the stiffness of their movement in other situations, they can shoot through the water like a rocket. The power and effortless speed is amazing. It's something other body types are not designed to do 'aerodynamically'. But, they need a really long pond and hardly any hobbyist has one. [Koi with the 'straight' body type are predominantly Sanke, but there are Showa in the Momotaro program with such bodies and some Kohaku from INC tend that direction also.]
    Thanks for the lessons. I'll just have to be extra observant to compensate for my lack of trips to koi shows save the one or two locally every year. Still, it helps to look at these auctions and read your comments. The rest is left to me to connect the dots.

    I would still like to get my hands on a showa that is similar to the Kato Showa though, even as it is lacking in refinement. It is raw power. It is a Johnny Weismuller Tarxan or a Conan McGregor as opposed to a Ben Affleck Batman or a Ryan Reynolds Deadpool. Or a 70s leaf-spring Land Cruiser of Jeep to a modern unibody Land Cruiser. I still don't have one showa, and still would like to get that kind of showa. Hope they leave enough of that gene pool untouched. They may be smaller, but they look tougher.

  5. #15
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
    Hi Mike,
    #38 is one nice Showa. Do you know if the auction results will be posted or available on this site ? Thanks
    No. It is a dealer auction. The winning bids are not made public..... although sometimes a few may leak.

  6. #16
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    Thanks for the lessons. I'll just have to be extra observant to compensate for my lack of trips to koi shows save the one or two locally every year. Still, it helps to look at these auctions and read your comments. The rest is left to me to connect the dots.

    I would still like to get my hands on a showa that is similar to the Kato Showa though, even as it is lacking in refinement. It is raw power. It is a Johnny Weismuller Tarxan or a Conan McGregor as opposed to a Ben Affleck Batman or a Ryan Reynolds Deadpool. Or a 70s leaf-spring Land Cruiser of Jeep to a modern unibody Land Cruiser. I still don't have one showa, and still would like to get that kind of showa. Hope they leave enough of that gene pool untouched. They may be smaller, but they look tougher.
    Yes. I think all would love to have one like the Kato Showa. .... However, by today's standards, she probably would not get much recognition in judging at the All-Japan shows. She had superior quality for the time, plus an arresting pattern. I do not think her quality would place her above larger Showa now being produced, and pattern has less influence. It is the fundamental effect of the breeder's art. The best koi that ever existed are the ones being produced now. It has been so since World War II, and will continue to be as long as breeders stay working to produce the next GC. Goes to show that enjoyment of koikeeping really is not just about awards. Some koi give great enjoyment without ever being a serious candidate for any.
    yerrag likes this.

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