Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: Momotaro Auction, November 15, 2016

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128

    Momotaro Auction, November 15, 2016

    Another opportunity to enjoy incredible koi, and study the continuing progress.....

    http://www.momotaro-koi.eu/koi-en/
    claytran likes this.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    Lion Queen Jr? Certainly feeding off Lion Queen's fame. Jr? A dynasty ensues ... III IV V. Coat of arms?

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Yep.

    Momotaro's marketing has impressed me for quite some time. It was not that long ago that Sanke and Kohaku were the focus. Now Showa dominates the auction offerings. The Lion Queen mystique sells. Personally, as nice as the Showa are, I am more impressed by the Sanke. The ones up for auction are much advanced over the top sellers from 5 years ago. These show less of the Matsunosuke influence in both body lines and pigment quality.... a continuing advancement. And, the patterns are solid, too, with several exhibiting much more controlled sumi. I would much enjoy Sanke #53, #65 or #68 in my pond.

  4. #4
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    Nice picks Mike. I like 38.

    I like that the video comes up along with the photo. The video makes me appreciate the koi more.

    The lighting somehow makes the beni flawless! And luminiscent neon as well!

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    It is hard not to like Showa #38. She has traditional Showa patterning, but otherwise is not traditional at all. There is only a slight bit of traditional Showa's 'front loaded' body form. The body line flows smoothly, with a very good tail tube. If you were only seeing a silhouette without color or pattern, I think it would pass for Kohaku or Sanke. (That is a good thing.)

  6. #6
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    I didn't take notice that #38 has a sanke/kohaku body form, but I'm seeing it now. Thanks for sharing that observation Mike.

    The problem with me is that in such a selection where poor body shapes have been whittled out, I tend to see patterns only, and everything else is forgotten. And I just browse through many of them, and stop when something catches my eye. Perhaps it's the nuanced symmetry, or the randomness of placements of sumi and beni on an appreciable amount of shiroi, and the way this randomness offers a visual unity. Lost in this is imagining future developments in the sumi, where it could provide the visual unity that is currently missing.

    An example for me is #23, a kindai showa that would look better if the sumi above the mouth would meet and overlap part of the head beni. As the shoulder sumi stretches and links up with the head sumi and as the beni intensifies, it would allow for continuous sumi overlapping with the three beni plates. This might overpower the center beni (the two left beni patches), but if the sumi can overlap both these beni plates to make it appear as if the sumi is crossing thru one large beni plate, it would give a strong beni presence that won't be dominated by the sumi.

    The small beni on the right is the major unpredictable. Without it, a unifying esthetic element is lost, like something is missing.
    Last edited by yerrag; 11-11-2016 at 06:18 AM. Reason: Additional clarification.

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    The #23 Showa is an interesting one to study. She has a more front-loaded body form, with sumi patterning more like traditional Showa. Note how the sumi appears as veins of black running over the body. Nearly everyone reacts positively to sumi running over the body like veins of obsidian running through ore. Many of the Showa being auctioned have large blocks of sumi that give the presence of Showa, but are reminiscent of a Sanke with too much sumi. #23 stays closer to classic Showa. The low proportion of beni makes her stand out because the shiroji is so bright. She grabs attention. While she will surely continue to develop, with the sumi becoming more concentrated as it matures, I tend to think that she is at her peak of marketability. As she grows, the minimal beni will become a more notable deficiency and the front-loaded body will not impress the way a flowing body line would.

    Your imagining of the future is what Showa make us do. It is a curious thing about Showa. People are more inclined to see positive future development. "Knowing" that more sumi will come up, that it will expand and concentrate, we seem to let our wish for it to happen to become our confident prediction that it likely will... and in just the way we want. We end up seeing the fish the way we want it to develop, not just as it is. With Sanke, the sumi can come or go, and we feel far less comfortable assuming a positive future. The problem is that not all of today's Showa follow the continuing development path of the past. There is too much Sanke in their genetics. Compare #23 with #24. They are conveniently next to each other. If it were not for the motoguru, #24 would be easily mistaken for a Sanke with poorly placed sumi. I think it would be an error to assume that the sumi of #24 will develop like traditional Showa. Perhaps it will, but there would be much more risk making that assumption compared to #23. With today's Showa, at least the ones on the leading edge, the lessons taught in the texts can be very misleading. Isa seems to be staying closer to the traditional root, as are others, but in so doing seem to lag Momotaro in body line progress combined with the potential to exceed 90cm. (I say that based on what I see in auction pics and internet postings, which may not be an accurate reflection of what would be seen on a visit to the farms.) For most hobbyists perfectly happy with 80-85cm, and not minding a more front-loaded form, Isa and Dainichi are probably safer bets overall, but the issue also applies to their Showa even if to a somewhat lesser degree. To get astounded the way Lion Queen impressed, less traditional sumi is likely going to be part of the package.

  8. #8
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    I hope #23 is as far as all the breeders would go with refining the showa, in terms of body shape, Mike. You put into words the disconnect I sense in many of the Showa. They are indeed reminiscent of Sanke with too much sumi.

    Does the risk of a front-loaded body have to do with making the tail look thin? Is that why a front loaded body runs the risk of not having a flowing body line?

    Are there instances of a classic showa body, front-loaded, that manage to have a flowing body line? I hope so. I would hate to see the classic showas shape disappear. If refinement makes the showa look like a sanke or a kohaku in shape, that would be unfortunate.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Yes, sort of. "Flowing" may not be the best descriptor, but if you look at the best of Dainichi you will find some Showa with even body lines, including a tail tube not out of proportion with the front half of the body. These bodies have a different shape. They are more 'inflated', if that makes sense, and tend to stay shorter.... but 80-85cm, is hardly small!

    Which is better? ...long, flowing body lines on really big fish, or a chunkier, solid body on a big fish? Both are fully acceptable as far as judging is concerned. I think different judges may lean one way or the other. In some respects, with Showa it touches on what is considered ideal. If you consider the ideal to be a koi that displays bold strength, then the broader shoulder and heavier sumi will come closer to your concept. If you think of the ideal as maximal refinement, then a more graceful body line comes closer.

    BTW, the true classic Showa body has disappeared, at least among individually priced koi. It was a terrible body with a weak tail. It is all about how far to go, and what is the ideal sought. The same question exists for Sanke. There are at least three major groupings of acceptable body types, from SFF 'blimps' to long forms heavy with Matsunosuke genes, and some with spindle-shapes. The spindle shape gives a very graceful appearance when swimming and can be very fast. The 'blimps' impress with their mass and tend to be slow swimmers. The ones with Matsunosuke body form are rather stiff and straight, with a bit of wildness.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    1,792
    Blimps, spindles, and straights. I think they are apt descriptors, imperfect as they are. But I get what you mean. At least I hope so. I'm quite familiar with the blimps of SFF. And like them a lot. But these are still different from the puffy marshmallows from some breeders such as Yagenji.

    Straights- are these the ones with large tail tubes? I dislike these seeing them as tosai and nisai, as the thick tails tubes make them unsightly as the enormity.of the tail tube challenges our sense of proportion. I suppose when mature the rest of the body catches up and the result would be a humongous koi with an impressive tail.

    I'm glad there are spindles if by that is meant a koi with a sexy curvature that allows for a steeper tapering from both shoulder to tail and shoulder to nose. I always thought such a form would not be appreciated because the tail would become too small. The same with the head.

    I'm just filling in the blanks. I'm more likely doing a poor job with it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Momotaro Auction October 5-6, 2016
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-23-2016, 07:55 AM
  2. Momotaro February 3, 2016 Auction
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-30-2016, 08:16 AM
  3. Momotaro Auction November 19, 2013
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-12-2013, 06:29 PM
  4. Momotaro November Auction
    By Brian in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 04:34 PM
  5. Momotaro November 2008 Auction
    By Brian in forum Koi Breeders
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-06-2008, 04:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com