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Thread: Rate your koi food:

  1. #21
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    Steve, what were your water temperatures and what was going on in your pond when the koi went off feed?

    What size fish are you feeding? Heres why I ask that question. Say you have four big koi. They can weigh 25 pounds each. So 100 pounds of koi. At 2% of weight you would be feeding 2 pounds of food a day to just four fish. Weigh out two pounds and look at it. This is a lot of food. I feed that amount in eight feedings when the water temp is in the high 70-low 80s. Tosai, nisai, young sansai, they will eat this much and more but a great big fish, in my experience, will not eat that much pellets. They are not growing fast and they don't need it and don't want it especially if the water cools slightly.

    I am tired of paying as much as steak costs, $10 a pound, for Japanese food of dubious age. I will not do so. Only to my top show gosanke for a few months out of the year to condition do I feed Hi Silk, Izeki, etc.

    I have 10 big koi in my show string but another 40 big koi of chagoi, yamabuki, komonryu, kujaku and other off brands. They have no shiro to ruin and they eat like pigs. Can you imagine my feed bill if I fed all Japanese food? Even with just the Rangen I could feed another couple of horses for what it costs a month, almost $80 per 50 pounds delivered. This is ridiculous.

    So at Area 51 I am doing yet another experiment. At Tractor Supply Company. a nation wide chain of farm stores, they have a "Cold Water Fish Food". This is not a trout chow although it sounds like it. It is for omnivoruos fish, tilapia, sunfish, catfish. It costs $10.99 for 50 POUNDS. Main ingredients are corn middlings, soy, and fish meal in that order. It is a 32% protien, 2.5% fat ration. I am feeding half this food and half Rangen to my mature non show fish non gosanke for a 34% protien diet. So far so good.

  2. #22
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    Steve, from two different people who have those pretty little self feeders you mentioned I have heard the koi empty those in less than an hour once they learn. (Although its very entertaining). I like the automated Koi Cafe.

  3. #23
    Sansai
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    Shiro,

    It was two summers past that my fish virturally stopped eating the Rangen feed and it was that same season they would only eat very little floating wheat germ. The total amount of feed at the 2% estimate was right at a pound. I had been feeding the Rangen for 2 seasons prior to the one when they stopped eating it. Pond environment was the same (not good that is why the remodel). The floating feed was Hikari Wheat Germ. When mixed with plain gelatin it would sink and was eaten. Realizing (finally!) that the 2% figure might be too high and after more reading on various boards I have cut down the amount of feed to approximately 1%

    Then to confuse the issue even more, this summer they are eating floating feeds with no hesitation.

    With regards to the demand feeder...At first they would empty the feeder within an hour or less. After a week or so it would last 14 to 18. Then the compartment would last for 2+ days. Still a large amount of feed I grant. But it seemed that the amount of feed they would eat was lessening. Then I ran into some filtration problems with my filters not handling the amount of ammonia being produced so I stopped using the feeder. Things have gotten in the way of putting it back over the pond. I suspect that it will work well in warmer weather with no filtration problems. I know of one persons who has been using the feeder for several seasons. He puts it into operation after the water temps have increased and his filtration has come on line for the summer.

    The automatic feeders will definately give you more control over the amount of feed.

    This season I am feeding a mix of Hi Silk 21, Hi Silk 21 Sweetpotato, and Hikari Gold. Approximately 1% of estimated body weight. Probably over kill for my fish but I am curious to see if I can get any more growth out of my pond mutts. I am still on the beginners learning curve so pretty much all I do is part of that curve.
    Steve

  4. #24
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    All right. Another growth freak.

    Heres a secret. Have you ever heard of Insectomatic? Free protien, about
    55%. Redding has bugs, right?

  5. #25
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    SMG: How about after a good hard rain, with flashlights at night looking for nightcrawlers?

  6. #26
    Sansai
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    The insectomatic is on my list of things to do...one of these days. Right now the power for pumps is being supplied by 10 ga. extension cords. When the remodel is completed I should have enough power circuts to run the various pumps, lights, etc. Etc. being whatever other piece of equipment I forgot about in the planning, design, and build stages.


    We do have a few bugs/insects here in River City. Our lot backs up to a green belt of valley and blue oaks. Efficient breeding grounds for several different species of mosquitos. Even though Vector Control does an excellent job of control with biological sprays we still get a fair crop of them. And this does not count the myriad of other friendly little critters living off of the plants and humans in the area.

    With regards to the growth of our fish and my curiousness. Our fish are second hand from two ponders who wanted to travel more than they wanted to keep koi. Their original ponds were shallow and small. They were in the 10" to 12" range when purchased and were 5+ years old at the time. In the first year the smallest had grown to 14". By the second to 18". I am sure a large part of this growth was enabled by the much larger water column of our pond. At this point, I doubt that we can expect any more significant growth from these fish, but am interested in any results from this type of feeding.

    I have watched other local ponders and how they feed. Some of them buy fish that should have the genetics for good growth and confirmation but never seem to realize that potential. They feed the cheapest feed they can find and have less than optimum filtration. While I have come to the conclusion that feed and genitics are important, it still comes down to the water column one's fish live in. The saying "take care of the water and the fish will take care of themselves" applies to more than just their health in my thoughts.

    I think that if one buys a feed that is well balanced and made with ingredients appropriate for the fish our fish will do well in both health and growth/development wise. We must also take into consideration the purpose we have our fish. Is it for ornamental or is it for showing and/or best possible realization of the potential of the fish. If it is for ornamental purposes then a feed that provides a well balanced diet that supports the health of the fish may be best. If it is for show then a feed that supports health, growth, and color should be the one used.

    I think the original thoughts of this thread were related to keeping our fish for show/best development of the fish. Not putting words into anyones mouth or typing, just my take. From that perspective what do we want in a feed and how do we provide it? Has anyone compared the results from two groups of koi being feed differents feeds? Say Rangen vs. Hi-Silk/Hikari? Your experiment with the Cold Water Feed and Rangen mix follows my line of reasoning. For your non show fish you have selected a well balanced diet of inexpensive feed, makes sense. The results will be interesting. Are these fish younger fish that have not had a chance for growth development at this point or are they fish that are older, say 5+ years? What do you feed your show fish?

    Steve

  7. #27
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiromujigirl
    I have 10 big koi in my show string but another 40 big koi of chagoi, yamabuki, komonryu, kujaku and other off brands. They have no shiro to ruin and they eat like pigs. Can you imagine my feed bill if I fed all Japanese food? Even with just the Rangen I could feed another couple of horses for what it costs a month, almost $80 per 50 pounds delivered. This is ridiculous.
    If you order eight boxes (200 lbs.) you get the UPS "Hundred Weight" rate. It cost me $220.65 for 200 lbs. delivered.

  8. #28
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    Wow, Gene, thanks. I hope it doesn't come to that.

    Steve, it is interesting that you got 5+ year old stunted koi to grow an additional 8" in two seasons. I am doing a Can stunted koi carch up experiment here. We have large protien packages in Texas called June bugs. I'm not sure mosquitos would come to lights. They come to carbon dioxide I think

    Wouldn't it be fun to crawl around in the drizzle at night in the Pacific Northwest looking for earth worms? Really, I can't think of a finer activity, or company. Really.

    We must be nuts.

  9. #29
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve E
    The insectomatic is on my list of things to do...one of these days. Right now the power for pumps is being supplied by 10 ga. extension cords. When the remodel is completed I should have enough power circuts to run the various pumps, lights, etc. Etc. being whatever other piece of equipment I forgot about in the planning, design, and build stages.


    We do have a few bugs/insects here in River City. Our lot backs up to a green belt of valley and blue oaks. Efficient breeding grounds for several different species of mosquitos. Even though Vector Control does an excellent job of control with biological sprays we still get a fair crop of them. And this does not count the myriad of other friendly little critters living off of the plants and humans in the area.

    With regards to the growth of our fish and my curiousness. Our fish are second hand from two ponders who wanted to travel more than they wanted to keep koi. Their original ponds were shallow and small. They were in the 10" to 12" range when purchased and were 5+ years old at the time. In the first year the smallest had grown to 14". By the second to 18". I am sure a large part of this growth was enabled by the much larger water column of our pond. At this point, I doubt that we can expect any more significant growth from these fish, but am interested in any results from this type of feeding.

    I have watched other local ponders and how they feed. Some of them buy fish that should have the genetics for good growth and confirmation but never seem to realize that potential. They feed the cheapest feed they can find and have less than optimum filtration. While I have come to the conclusion that feed and genitics are important, it still comes down to the water column one's fish live in. The saying "take care of the water and the fish will take care of themselves" applies to more than just their health in my thoughts.

    I think that if one buys a feed that is well balanced and made with ingredients appropriate for the fish our fish will do well in both health and growth/development wise. We must also take into consideration the purpose we have our fish. Is it for ornamental or is it for showing and/or best possible realization of the potential of the fish. If it is for ornamental purposes then a feed that provides a well balanced diet that supports the health of the fish may be best. If it is for show then a feed that supports health, growth, and color should be the one used.

    I think the original thoughts of this thread were related to keeping our fish for show/best development of the fish. Not putting words into anyones mouth or typing, just my take. From that perspective what do we want in a feed and how do we provide it? Has anyone compared the results from two groups of koi being feed differents feeds? Say Rangen vs. Hi-Silk/Hikari? Your experiment with the Cold Water Feed and Rangen mix follows my line of reasoning. For your non show fish you have selected a well balanced diet of inexpensive feed, makes sense. The results will be interesting. Are these fish younger fish that have not had a chance for growth development at this point or are they fish that are older, say 5+ years? What do you feed your show fish?

    Steve
    Hey Steve how's your pond doing? Haven't seen the finished product...

  10. #30
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    Steve, I feed the show fish Rangen staple all year except two months prior to a show I feed them Hi Silk and Izeki, shrimp and endive lettuce. They win a lot of trophys so this diet doesn't seem to be ruining them.

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