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Thread: Stress In Tancho Kohaku

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Stress In Tancho Kohaku

    Perhaps it is my imagination, but it seems to me that Tancho Kohaku exhibit stress more readily than many other varieties. I particularly note red blood vessels in the surface of the skin along the upper dorsal flanks. I observed this with a Tancho I kept for several years, ones I've seen in show tanks and recently in pics in a magazine of show winners in Japan from 1980s (when the pics were not as "professional" as they are today). Or, is it simply that all that white skin makes the stress signs more notable?

    Have others sensed the same? Thoughts on why it might be?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Hey Mike, aren't people taking a greater risk of buying a Tancho and it losing the Tancho? But you are right on the stress factor of the fish thou.

  3. #3
    Tategoi
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    Aquitori:

    Your quote: Hey Mike, aren't people taking a greater risk of buying a Tancho and it losing the Tancho?"

    You may want to check with the Man from NC.(Brady B)...I bought two Tancho Sankes from him and they look great...It's also my understanding that his stock don't loose the Tancho...

    You may want to check it out and buy domestic for this type...

    Aloha! the older Mike

  4. #4
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    Aren't many/most tancho from a normal kohaku spawn (or sanke spawn)? I see a lot of fish which are almost tancho but have a stray bit of hi somewhere which makes them just a kohaku with a very poor pattern. I am going to be really surprised when you guys tell me that there is a structural difference in the shiro of a tancho and normal kohaku, or that one is more likely than the other to blush. Whether there is a difference or not, no one can deny that "all that white skin makes the stress signs more notable?"

    How would a tancho know that he/she is not shiro muji?

    -steve hopkins

  5. #5
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    Mike-


    I have one Tancho. My son bought it at the Louisville show at a little auction that Ray Abell put on where he donated to the club the proceeds. The high bidder had the choice of any of the 5-6 inch fish in that particular tank. My son selected a Tancho that had a little secondary hi. The fish has done great over the last three years and is 24 inches, great body, female and is probably the "most improved" fish I have. The secondary hi left long ago and the tancho spot while not perfectly round is as thick as can be.

    However, as you state, the fish shows stress in the shiro areas of the body. Every water change I see it. She does look good in a show on day 2 and 3. This is the only fish in my pond that does this.

    Mike Pfeffer
    Mike Pfeffer
    Northern Midwest ZNA show
    June 19 - 20, 2010
    Season's Garden Nursery
    Fishers, IN

  6. #6
    Sansai marco's Avatar
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    Hi Mike, I have the same problem with a Goromo, each time that something change in the pond, I can see the blood vessels on the white part of the skin, but only for a few hours.
    I saw a picture in a book of these blood vessels and the autour explain that it was due to the stress, and the koi was a tancho kohaku .....
    I will try to scan the picture later and send it to you.

  7. #7
    Jumbo
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    Pools within pools,...

    What we have to keep in mind with Koi is there are little genetic pools within gene pools,... a parent set often contains several distinct mini groupings of "genes" that show up as distinct characteristics in and among the hundreds of offspring,... so in a group of Kohaku offspring some can be Tancho and carry with the "tancho" pattern skin that is thin and shows stress and bloodvessels easily,... so we would see this in a lot of tanchos, because they are historically coming from the same "line" though from different breeders. Also, Tancho Koi that can or do lose the tancho marking easily are coming from a same "line" bred somewhere way in the past, but continuing to appear from Kohaku pairings.

    So the reason we see so many Tanchos with red streaks AND so many Tanchos that lose their red pattern is because of historic lines reappearing.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I've always considered Tanchos and Shiro utsuri, the "canary in the coal mine".
    Both will stress very easily when things are not to their liking.

    most nisai and older do well retaining their tancho unless the water is really poor
    with high PH. The reputation of losing comes from tancho tosai immediately following shipment ( and the stress thereof )

  9. #9
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    So Brady, what do you consider to be the best Tancho bloodline out there? I mean I have had everything else but a Tancho.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Brandwood
    What we have to keep in mind with Koi is there are little genetic pools within gene pools,... a parent set often contains several distinct mini groupings of "genes" that show up as distinct characteristics in and among the hundreds of offspring,... so in a group of Kohaku offspring some can be Tancho and carry with the "tancho" pattern skin that is thin and shows stress and bloodvessels easily,... so we would see this in a lot of tanchos, because they are historically coming from the same "line" though from different breeders. Also, Tancho Koi that can or do lose the tancho marking easily are coming from a same "line" bred somewhere way in the past, but continuing to appear from Kohaku pairings.

    So the reason we see so many Tanchos with red streaks AND so many Tanchos that lose their red pattern is because of historic lines reappearing.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

  10. #10
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Brady: I've noticed that some Tancho are simply white koi with Hi on the head. But others are distinctive in the thickness of the Hi causing the maruten to be slightly raised ... vaguely analogous to the "cap" on an Oranda, although not nearly so enlarged. However, all of that sort that I have seen in person are more a pale cream-yellow, rather than pure white. Never have been able to identify a particular breeder as a source for such fish. Seems more a random occurrence among lines?

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