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Thread: shusui progress

  1. #11
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    The male that you photo'd singularly is as good as you have for a parent.

    Clean head, nice red ,pretty scalation. The toughest is always trying to get the scales down by the tail to be better aligned. I would use that one exclusively as your breeder. That way you'll know the results in one season whether he contributed to the sucess.

    Does the female have more or less red? Does she has moto-aka on her pecs?

    when you sembetsu (cull) you primary objective will be to look for the matching scallation either side of the dorsal.You probably won't be able to tell much for 60 days. that's the problem with asagi/shusui. You will get hannah and hi shusui both and and keep a little of both. Keep in mind for the future that the blue will slip away after 3-4 years and the red in shusui about that time does also. having strong red on the female is not a bad thing. Try and stay away from any colored redundant scales with both parents. that's the biggest downfall.

    wish we lived closer, I'd give you a hand! Let us hear on the top side of the world watch your progress as our effort go dormant with winter.

    Good luck!

  2. #12
    Jumbo Tom C's Avatar
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    Most shusui I have seen darken up as the get large. This one is very clean. What is your pH at in the pond?

    Tom

  3. #13
    Nisai soelistyo's Avatar
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    the PH used to fall below 7.0 until 3-4 months ago when i put in crushed oyster shells and coral chips into my filter.
    it is now consistently 7.4-7.5.

  4. #14
    Jumbo Tom C's Avatar
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    That's what I thought a nice low pH.

  5. #15
    Tategoi ranskye's Avatar
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    can someone tell me how to start a new thread?
    thats the only reason ive jumped in on you soelistyo, sorry.

    pH in my pond is around 8.5 bore water. plenty of calcium.

    thanks a lot dick for the advice..though i dont know what hannah is? im ussually a goldfish boy but they bore me a bit now..
    you mention the two types that i will get that i should keep some of both..what am i looking for in the second type? in past ive likely sold almost everything as feeders by 60 days except kept some like the one ive pictured.

    my fish seem to have some reflective scales here and there on the sides of the fish.

    ive got some asagi as well and ill probably take a group photo and get your idea on which ones to breed together from those as well.
    i had tried to breed from them a couple of years ago but the girls had already spawned.

    all fish stock came from japan around 15 years ago and havent been mixed with other farm stock since.

    would it be unwise to let both types of fry(shusui and asagi) into the same fingerling rearing pond? maybe id be making it harder when culling or do they show their differences between type at 60 odd days?

    ive noticed when i let gin rin go with other types all the gin rin get eaten up or something..

    thanks very much.

  6. #16
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    OK, found the pic now ranskye. I don't know shusui and would have to defer to Dick and others on quality. However, I would worry about one little snake being able to bump and fertilize an 85 cm female.

    At the top and bottom of the main forum page (the page with the list of threads) there is a blue button for "new thread".

    -stevehopkins

  7. #17
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    hI sHUSUI-IS A BASICALLY RED BODY WITH WHITE FORHEAD. HANNAH IS A BASICALLY BLUE BODY WITH RED RIBBONS BETWEEN THE DORSAL FIN AND LATERAL LINE (ALONG THE BACK).

    i THINKING REARING BOTH ASAGI AND SHUSUI FRY WOULD BE FINE. eACH KOI
    WOULD HAVE TO BE IDENTIFIED AT SELECTION TIME AS ASAGI'S WITH RED ON THE BACKS IS A NO-NO! bUT IT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO TELL EVEN AT 50 DAYS THE DOUITSU FROM THE WAGOI.

    WOULD BE ANXIOUS TO SEE YOUR POSSIBLE ASAGI PARENTS.

  8. #18
    Tategoi ranskye's Avatar
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    thanks steve, i must be blind, ill start a new thread next batch of photos.
    leave this poor guys thread alone..to think ive never posted my opwn thread yet. dont know how you guys havent booted me off.

    thanks dick, ok should be easy for me to tell the difference, ive never selected out any asagi to grow on before. only really kept mainly kohaku and gin rin and metallics and senki and the rare shusui.

    ill post up some asagi parents i have access to when ive got the pond ready to go in a couple of weeks, its on dry out at the moment..and ill leave the girls stress free till then.

    i know my asagi dont look like your one thats for sure. maybe they are crap but ill give em a go, be interested to show you to see if they are any good and more interesting to see what they put out. its been a long while since i bred from those even. i know my asagi boys looked a bit thin when i bred them about 3 years back. i think that if i let them go in the main pond theyd fatten right up so i dont think its genetic, more just lack of space. the females have more roaming room in their nets. while the boys are only in a 2x1 meter cages and cant sift the bottom mud.

    all i can remember from the shusui are the ones with the big blue scale on top, dark blue doitsu scales, and a lighter sky coloured leather skin blue bellow that with the red about halfway up the side.
    i cant ever remember seeing any young with the red all the way up to the top, actually i remember orange all over some shusui but i think or atleast thought back then that they were just a cross between shusui and some orange orgon.

    however i think the female i have is a bit like that with red going up further. she snowhere near perfect..
    i saw another decent size female the other day in a net at feeding time and she might be worth taking a photo as she might be better to breed from.
    ive used up two female shusui girls already but atleast two or three others are left full with eggs.
    yes steve i wonder if that skinny little boy will push the big sub around..
    ill put them together in a cage in fresh water, if they dont spawn naturally ill check to seee if she has ovulated and give him a helping hand.. haha jump in there with him and give her a good nudge. we dont have many real big fish.
    actually i find it easier to breed from a few smaller ones but this time i will have access to a couple of smaller ponds in the vicintiy of 200,000 litres so i can probably get enough fry from one girl to fill that up with fish.
    ussually i breed feeders in a million lite pond.

    i just used one of those smaller plastic liner ponds to bloom up some food for some bass (saltwater) i threw in around 15 litres all up of old koi emulsion we had from when our effluent pond crashed years ago and there were mongrel koi floating everywhere. added some uea and some phospahate, i was pumping with a 2000l per hour pump overnight through a 60 micron screen and getting a heap of live food, about a solid litre worth. ive got a tub of gin rin still in sticky mode and i cant wait to try out the live feed on them prior to letting them go into another pond. i had so much excess live food i was thinking of freezing the stuff. if i feed the right amount i dont think it will bother them that its from a salt bloom, my fresh water is at 5ppt and the main koi breeders are in 10ppt believe it or not..they copped a spill from a salt pond during winter..was at 14ppt before i checked it. hopefully its wiped out the argulas..dont know if that amount of salt will though.

    ok see you guys in a couple of weeks!
    thanks.

  9. #19
    Tategoi ranskye's Avatar
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    hey steve call me stupid but i can only see a blue tag that says reply to post, none that say new post..what page an i supposed to be on to see that tag?

    what about these metallic fish? what are they called?

    i thought they were just called metallics. are they mongrels? these three meatallics are all boys.

    the black and white ones, i think some are bekko, but i remember a tad of orange on the belly of the doitsu one on the left, heres a bigger pic steve..is that a tancho senki or tancho bekko? so should i just breed it with a three coloured male and not a bekko? maybe one of the whiter 3 fish from the 3 colour senki batch?
    those bigger ugly ones are females.

    what is the one with the mostly black? shiro utsuri? i can hear yas laughing at me now.. ill pair that up with something similar and show you a pic so you can tell me if im pure breeding or plain old kidding myself.
    and are any of these fish much good or should i go off to an auction before everyones fish spend their eggs?

    i hope to find another decent red kohaku in another cage, these orangy red females are a bit poor. seems only the males i have are a decent red clour.

    ive got this good kohaku with a tancho spot, it went apeshit on a pond of feeders when it escaped unoticed from the breeding cage, when i caught it out, i gave it a good scar with the net and it hasnt egged up for us since.

    also remember that operation that maurice did on the bloated koi?

    well we let one bloater go in our effluent pond a couple of years ago and now it has come back to normal size agian by itself. so that was interesting.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails shusui progress-148-4859_img.jpg   shusui progress-148-4860_img.jpg   shusui progress-148-4861_img.jpg   shusui progress-148-4862_img.jpg  

  10. #20
    Tosai michael_w's Avatar
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    hi ranskye,

    You need to be on the 'general forum' page with the list of threads on, and the blue box is on the top left hand side.

    hope this helps, nice koi by the way

    michael

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