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Thread: Big Pond or Big waste of time and money?

  1. #21
    Jumbo
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    Gee, this seems like such a peaceful thread I almost don't want to engage?

    I've seen a guy raise an ogon to 26 inches in a 1500 gallon pond. I've seen the momotaro pond with fish that disappear from sight!

    In the yard, bigger is better for all the reasons already stated- very stable environment slow to react to acid rain, winter snow or dropping night temperatures. Never a pH crash. All good. And the temptation to over stock is also pretty hard to accomplish, even for the insanely obsessive compulsives among us!

    But the one big challenge of an oversized pond is that the water must be moved , current should be present and water must be tuned over through the filters. The idea that no filtration is needed only works if the water is run on an algae primary, bacteria secondary model. This means that the stocking levels must be so low as to make ammonia presence a diluted insignificant thing. And moving big water takes big plumbing, big pumps and a big electric bill. And in most cases one must abandon the filter designs created for smaller ponds as the scale will get you every time.

    Iíve know a lot of koi keepers over the last 20 years. And more than a few have built the oversized dream pond. And many have done it all themselves just like Luke has. And Iíve seen the mistakes. These mistakes most often result in slow moving Ďheavyí water that tends to be thick in appearance. The koi often get ulcers. And of course, it is a Ďbearí to catch and treat them daily!

    Itís a tricky line between massive volume that keeps water ideal and dead water that becomes ripe with micro organisms of all kinds? I personally think the trick is in the movement of that water. Removal of decayed gaseous forms of nitrogen being a remedy for public enemy #1.

    So if you have the bucks for the monthly electric, go for it! But do it right. Very often things that sound good on paper do not work out in real life applications.

    My idea of a dream pond? 18,000- 26,000 gallons. Anything bigger requires a different approach. For most of us, I think 7,000- 15,000 is realistic. And 12,000 should be the best of all worlds, the ultimate Goldilocks pond- not too big and not too small, just right!

    JR

  2. #22
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    When it was "show time" in my area, because of my new pond, my water was green and I had to run a seine net to catch the fish I wanted to take to the show. Of course, with clear water, I could have seen when the net was dragging over the bottom drain covers but in green water I could not. Turns out a tore off one of the air dome bottom drain covers. Closer inspection, I didn't just pull the pvc shaft out of the female end but I broke it off and pulled the air line off. The pond will have to be drained to repair it.

    I would never want a pond that required me to use a seine. In fact, I will never use a seine in my pond again. Another thing to consider is gazing at the fish in one's collection. There is nothing worse than having too many fish to look at, except when you're with a patient breeder or dealer. All that visual stimulous is too much. It is difficult to focus on a single fish.

    Mike Pfeffer
    Mike Pfeffer
    Northern Midwest ZNA show
    June 19 - 20, 2010
    Season's Garden Nursery
    Fishers, IN

  3. #23
    Tategoi Dan Blatt's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. I really think it comes down to what one wants in a koi pond. Personally I don't really care if I have 30 inch plus koi. Too hard to handle for whatever reason. I'm quite content to have koi in the 18-27 inch range. My pond is 4487 gallons...16 ft. long, 6 ft. wide and 7 ft. deep. No problem at all catching the koi. Filtration is about 3 times the capacity of the pond itself. Pond bottom always is spotless with the two bottom drains(each one positioned in the middle of a 8 ft. by 6 ft. area) with air domes. Easy to maintain, never any problems (unless I do something stupid), and koi look wonderful.

    I'm not saying I would not want a larger pond, all I'm saying is I'm quite happy with the results of mine. Operating costs are minimal as is time spent on maintainance.

  4. #24
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Blatt
    Interesting thread. I really think it comes down to what one wants in a koi pond. Personally I don't really care if I have 30 inch plus koi. Too hard to handle for whatever reason. I'm quite content to have koi in the 18-27 inch range. My pond is 4487 gallons...16 ft. long, 6 ft. wide and 7 ft. deep. No problem at all catching the koi. Filtration is about 3 times the capacity of the pond itself. Pond bottom always is spotless with the two bottom drains(each one positioned in the middle of a 8 ft. by 6 ft. area) with air domes. Easy to maintain, never any problems (unless I do something stupid), and koi look wonderful.

    I'm not saying I would not want a larger pond, all I'm saying is I'm quite happy with the results of mine. Operating costs are minimal as is time spent on maintainance.
    The demensions of your pond seems to be more on the Japanese size, longer giving the koi more room to swim back and forth and depth. To me that is the ideal "Conditioning pond" for koi. What I have noticed in alot of the Japanese magazines is that more of the ponds are about 3 or 4 times longer than the width.

  5. #25
    Tategoi Dan Blatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori
    The demensions of your pond seems to be more on the Japanese size, longer giving the koi more room to swim back and forth and depth. To me that is the ideal "Conditioning pond" for koi. What I have noticed in alot of the Japanese magazines is that more of the ponds are about 3 or 4 times longer than the width.
    Yes....... the pond is very formal centered in middle if various deck levels. Just wanted the focus to be on koi.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Pond or Big waste of time and money?-yagtanchoshowa-021.jpg  

  6. #26
    Sansai Akinosan's Avatar
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    Very nice settup. you've got great viewing areas on all sides. Nice pond.

  7. #27
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akinosan
    Very nice settup. you've got great viewing areas on all sides. Nice pond.
    Some guy in San Jose Evergreen valley is supposed to be building a nice pond. Wish he would share some pics... Joe

  8. #28
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Gee, this seems like such a peaceful thread I almost don't want to engage?
    JR
    Pretty unreal huh JR....


    Anyhow I like big ponds and small ponds. Out here in Cal you pretty much gotta be a Tycoon to have enough land to build something like SMG or Lake luke. I have seen Pics of construction of lake luke and its pretty unreal. I have seen a Mini version of Luke pond where an island in the middle give you an almost 360 view and I gotta say its pretty darn nice.

    My pocket book says I cant even keep up to stock my measly 6000g pond. I think if I was to move and redo I would build no bigger than 12,000 dream pond Like MikeM's or that other guy in SJ evergreen Valley.

    Joe
    It's a living creature (chit happens)

  9. #29
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    My pond and the whole nine yard is roughly 7400g. If I were to redo the pond, I will increase its width by 2'. extend stream from 20+ feet to 30'. width from 24" to 40", raise waterfall by 2', increase its width from 30" to 40". That will give me 11Kg. I will keep the pond's depth at 4', it is currently at 3'9".

    stan

  10. #30
    Sansai Akinosan's Avatar
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    Hey Joe,
    I heard that other guy in Evergreen is having trouble finishing his Pond but as soon as he learns how to post photos, he'll show you the progress. In the meantime, all you gotta do is drop by!

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