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Thread: Too much injecting destroys the fish internally?

  1. #1
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Too much injecting destroys the fish internally?

    I know people here are pretty familar with injecting, but my main concern is the damage that injecting will cause on the liver.

  2. #2
    Tategoi
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    Kidneys get demolished by some meds. Liver by others. Just don't OD.

    Advance Koi Care book goes into some details for those meds. Duncan's book might too...

  3. #3
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
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    Pretty much what Jason says. Just dont OD with any type of meds... Too much toxins are not a good thing on the liver...

    Joe

  4. #4
    Sansai Akinosan's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I've been injecting some of my fish, and I think my kidneys are going bad!

  5. #5
    Jumbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akinosan
    I've been injecting some of my fish, and I think my kidneys are going bad!


    I hope not !!

    I used to have a momo sanke, which disappointed me alot. It got sick, I used it for baytril overdosing experirment. Everytime I got him to 25mg/kg, its color start to dim.

    stan

  6. #6
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    I'm not comfortable with the research, recommendations and dosages behind the meds used on koi. Being "approved" for ornamental fish does not carry a lot of weight, and there are chemicals being used which do not even have that approval. Testing focuses on efficacy in curing disease, but there is little incentive to look for long-term adverse impacts of the treatment, much less cumulative damage from multiple episodes.

    Some koi keepers bring out the drugs frequently and with little provocation - you know the type. How many of these guys have been able to keep an individual fish for more than 5 years? Are advances in koi medications resulting koi which live longer? Sometimes, it does not seem like it.

    -steve hopkins

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Ah, Steve, are you suggesting there is a lot more profit in medications than in fish?

    People tend not to invest in prevention. .... like more filters, more space, covers in the winter in cold climes, more water changes, etc.; but will empty their pockets when a favorite fish becomes ill.

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Koi like people are different and respond to different amounts of medication. ( my wife's problems were heightened by an OD of the anestetic to which she is super sensitive) Plus you don't know prior to your acquiring any one koi what they were exposed to prior.

    Back twenty years before this board, people called me " Dr Dick" because I was Giving shots and working with early koi medication because we had no one else to turn to. No Vets that knew fish, no KHA advisors etc. One thing i learned was that I put all my emphasis these days into prevention rather than cure. that kind of mentality works for people and pets!

    vary their diet, know the food % in relationship to water temp, don't overcrowd,
    use a q tank. Know how and when to use simple meds as Salt (not constantly!)
    when something doesn't look right with the pond or an individual fast action
    ( and correct action ) can stop problems before they get out of hand. Some people have a gift for this ability. NOT ALL DO. If your one that struggles to handle koi or deal with medical emergencies then have someone you can call immediately.

    remember stress can precipitate lots of problems so learn water quality and correct netting handling of koi. You'll be furthur ahead.

  9. #9
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    Well-said Dick.

    More knowledge is a wonderful thing. A good koi health seminar/short course is a wonderful thing. Having appropriate chemotherapeutics and the ability to properly use them to save a fish is a wonderful thing.

    Nonetheless, if you scrape your fish often and treat them at the first sign of a parasite, or use prophalictic treatments, you will shorten their life. Give me a fish with a strong immune system who can live comfortably with few flukes, a little Costia and persistent Aeromonas in the environment.

    -steve hopkins

  10. #10
    Nisai
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    The KHA vets will tell you that antibiotics are vastly overused, which is why they try to keep it in THEIR hands instead of allowing hobbyists to decide. And I know people who can get their hands on injectibles and use them every time a fish looks "off". Or they reach for the heavy hitters . . . the fish gets over the infection and all seems well. Then, several months later, it goes into a decline. No external physical reasons. Water's good; no parasitic evidence.

    If/when a necropsy is performed, the internal organs are a mess. The fish died from organ failure, and the owner tosses his hands in the air and asks, WHY? A history of the fish reveals injectibles used heavily and/or haphazardly in the recent past.

    I don't think it's coincidence. Injectibles have their place, but they're used entirely too often for the wrong reasons.

    But then again, what do *I* know???

    Lee B.

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