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Thread: Spawning what do I do now!

  1. #11
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    You just need a couple of small pumps the same size one to the pond and one out same volume of water, fill pond first with main pond water and then set up the pumps, if you set a large rock for the water coming in you can break the current very good. This also puts oxegyn in the water, you need to cover the pump with a nylon stocking washed good first over the pump, and put plenty of live plants for the fry to forage on while growing, the plants will supply them with some live foods The main pond filter will keep you form haveing to do water changes in the fry pond, if you are doing regular changes in the main pond the water will be good for the fry. They will also grow better.

  2. #12
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Chris: 1500 gallons is pretty good on such short notice! I am not familiar with that type/brand. There may be something special about how it is made that makes a suggestion of mine seem silly. If so, ignore it.

    First, with 10' diameter, my concern about too much air is greatly reduced. As long as most of the tank has a gentle water movement, it should do fine. If it seems too turbulent, you can lightly clamp the air tube.

    For now the 6" of water should be fine. I think you get fairly cool nights. With the tank above ground, the water will fluctuate quite a lot. If you do have an aquarium heater on hand, I'd use it simply to moderate the temperature shifts. It will not do much on 1500 gallons (esp. U.K. gallons), but with just 6" of water to start, it is not too under-sized. You'll not be warming the water too a high temperature, but the evening temperature drop will not be so great. If you can cover it, heat loss at night will be reduced, (I've got a friend who uses an aquarium heater outdoors in a 800 gal. pond to keep temps up just enough to get guppies to survive our occasional winter cold front. )

    After the fry hatch and become free swimming, you will get a water quality challenge. You will need to use an emulsion of egg yolk as a first food, and some high protein flake food rubbed into a powder. There is a "liquifry" product on the market too. Some folks have had great results with it. I personally think egg yolk and powdered flake food does fine. If you can hatch out baby brine shrimp, the fry will love it. (Don't let the brine shrimp egg shells into the grow tank. The fry will try to eat them and choke.) The initial goal is to get enough food in them so they grow to the point that they will eat dry foods. So, you will be over feeding. That means water quality is at risk. Egg yolk and such settling on the bottom will be eaten by the fry, but after an hour or two, some decomposition will begin. Over the first week or two, this can be very dangerous. The fry are so small and delicate. When I raised egg-scattering tropicals, I would place a few snails in the grow tank after all the fry were free swimming. They would eat the egg membranes and left over food without harming the fry.

    Water changes are a real problem when you cannot see the little fry! So, a technique that I was told about might be of interest. After the fry are free swimming and you are feeding them, do what amounts to a water change by adding water from your pond to the grow tank. Starting at 6", if you add 1.5" of water, it is equal to a 20% water change. The next day, add 2". The next day, add 3"... more if needed to dilute more. Got the concept? This avoids siphoning out fry accidentally. But, if food settling on the bottom is rotting, making the water cloudy, much more drastic action is needed. (That's why I like snails for cleaning up the extra food.)

    Some floating water plants are fine, like KFG suggests, so long as not taken from the wild and they are healthy. You do not want the bad bugs that travel on plants collected from the wild, and half-dead aquarium plants (which is so often what is found in aquarium shops) will hurt water quality.

    Time for Dick & Estanque & Kiefer & Jaco to chime in! [They really know what they are doing!]

  3. #13
    Nisai estanque_koi's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,
    this was my third breeding season using kiddie pools (around 1500 liters, 35 cm depth). It is very important to always clean very well brand new pools, believe me.
    Maybe you can have a look at the followint thread that I started in this forum were you will find a description and pictures of my breeding setup this year:
    3rd year as amateur breeder

    I've been using a recirculating system with heavy filtration (aerated kaldnes and arlite) with a 4000 liters/hour submersible pump serving two paired pools.
    Syphons with prefilters draw water by gravity to the biofilter. Despite of prefilters some fry are always living in the filter. Don`t worry, you will have too many free anyway. You can reduce the number of fry sucked by the syphons by placing airstones just next to the prefilter intake.
    Aeration is very important, donīt worry by the fry cause they will quicly find the best places to thrive in the pool.
    The critical point is feeding, the best option is using live food. First it is just ciliates (protozoans) and rotifers that are abundant in green water. Later Moina, Daphnia (Cladocera). Start your own cultures and seed the pool also.
    Don't worry about fungus, dont use chemicals since what you want is to have a thriving community of microoganisms waiting in your pools to be eaten by your fry. And chemicals will kill all the microorganisms.
    I have had a large proportion of a spawn non fertilized (the female started spawning before adding the male), then added the male and the spawning went on. Did nothing, and you can immagine what hapened to the masses of unfertilized eggs. However, I had no problem at all and losts of fry hatched and developed successfully in that pool. Having a big biofilter I didn't change water after the spawning and ammonia and nitrite concentrations were negligible whithin a few hours.
    Your fry will be able to start feeding mashed flakes in two or three weeks.
    Good luck, and thanks again for posting pics of the BKKS Koi Show

    Diego
    Diego Jordano
    Cordoba, Spain
    A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
    pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/

  4. #14
    Sansai
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    Your single biggest problem for the foreseeable future is water quality. I cant enphasise enough how hard it will be to keep ammonia under control until a month or so down the line when you add filtration. Set up a box type filter or similar running on your main pond so that the media can mature for a month then switch it to your fry pond with stockings or similar over the pump. I wouldnt recommend trying to circulate pond water between 2 ponds, if one pump trips, blocks up, pipe comes off etc, you will empty one pond and overflow the other with obvious desasterous consequences to both. Also, adult fish secrete hormones that will stunt the growth of koi fry. Thirdly, any parasitic problem or such like that your large koi tolerate could wipe the fry out. Water sharing is a deffinite no no all round.

    The immediate problem is getting some reliably form of water change going and change as much water as you can each day, filling from a purifier as chlorines will kill the fry quickly. Keep a regular check on your ammonia, as you arent filltering, nitrite wont be an issue.

    Order some brine shrimp eggs off the net, Artemix is a good one for first time users, you will need A LOT though. In the mean time, liquifry red is your best option for keeping them alive until the brine shrimp are ready to feed, this will cost you an arm and a leg unfortunately. Liquifry red will set you back Ģ2.49p a bottle and you will go through a couple of bottles a day. Good garden centres with aquatic sections will have the liquifry.

  5. #15
    Nisai Eclipsar's Avatar
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    Many thanks for all your help, found this place on the web is any of this any good.

    http://cnb-host1.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/zm-ltd

    Regards
    Chris

  6. #16
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclipsar
    Many thanks for all your help, found this place on the web is any of this any good.

    http://cnb-host1.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/zm-ltd

    Regards
    Chris
    I'm not sure what your linking too there m8, I just get some kind of catalogue search page?

  7. #17
    Nisai Eclipsar's Avatar
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    You should be able to scroll down the page and find a lot of different fry food.

    This is there main page

    http://www.zmsystems.demon.co.uk/index.htm

    Regards
    Chris

  8. #18
    Sansai
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    It looks to be a good source for brine shrimp yes, the only downside to buying the shrimp cysts like that is that you will need to produce your own salt water at the correct salinity. This isnt particularly difficult to do but just something else to think about.

    The source I mentioned above, hobby artemix, will work out more expensive but is really simple to use for first timers as the eggs are mixed with salt already so you just add a spoon or two of the mix to a litre of tap water and aerate for 2/3 days. Either way will do the job.

    As for their hard feeds, I'm not sure about using those for koi as they have been produced specifically with the needs of other fish in mind so may not be suitable. What I do is feed the brine shrimp for a few weeks and for the third week I'll introduce some high quality, high protein koi food a bit at a time via a normal table pepper grinder/dispenser which grinds the pellets to almost dust. Once they are readily accepting this it's quite straight forward to get them on to the small koi pellets.

  9. #19
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    This is probably too late to help, but...

    Get a small tin of the 100 and 200 micron dry feed. Get a larger tin of the 400 micron dry feed. A jug of Nannochlorphsis would be nice, but its sort of late to be going that route. Also get brine shrimp cysts. The brine shrimp tin will tell you how much solar salt to add to each gallon for maximum hatching efficiency.

    Make a mesh cylinder about 20-30 cm in diameter and 20-30 cm long. Slip a pair of women's nylon stockings over the cylinder. Insert the end of a length of 2-3 cm diameter tubing into the open end of the stocking and tie the bag closed. This is your siphon for removing water from the tank without inpinging the fry. Refill fry tank from your main pond unless you have another supply of aged water. You can also fashion a continuous trickle flow-through if you plumb the drain tubing through the wall of the tank or make a constant-level siphon (ask for the details on this if needed).

    Encourage a bloom of green water or add the Nannochlorphsis. This will enrich the zooplankton making them much more nutritious and dampen any ammonia spikes.

    Use at least two airlines. The air stone diffuser is not necessary, but is OK if the bubbles are not too fine. Worry more about the oxygen concentration than the turbulence. The fry do not have well developed gills and cannot deal with low oxygen, but they can handle the turbulence within reason and will find a spot which is comfortable for them.

    Good luck,
    -steve hopkins

  10. #20
    Nisai Eclipsar's Avatar
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    So it is day 3 and i think I can see a few black ones 2-3mm long, also can see what looks like a egg with a tail, these seem to be stuck to the bottom of the pond, the more I look the more I think I can see. So is this them?

    Also if they have hatched when do I start putting food in.

    Regards

    Chris

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