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Thread: Momotara Pond Design with Bakki Shower

  1. #11
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    seattle, wa

    Don't hold your wind or your water while your waiting for an explaination. I have never seen one yet and it has been poo=pooed by many respected "authorities".

    But do me a favor and ask yourself while cliff neal just won the UK national with the same koi and system he had from the year before. Could there be something to it or is it just hype? He has done an excellent job ( albeit expensive) to build and filter the pond he has. You might want to get some of the KB articles out and reread them that featured him and his system. I still run my j mat heavily aerated vortexes along with a 3 stacker of bacteria house media and i have noticed an improvement now after a year with a pretty good system already! I do know of a well respected california dealer who runs the showers with bio balls and is very happy with the results.

    So kinda make up your mind to try it or not. But not until you've re-read the KB article with Cliff's article!

  2. #12
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Orlando, Florida
    I will not even try to explain it. The Bakki Shower thread on this forum raised all these questions with no real resolution.

    Nonetheless, everyone I know with the Bakki Shower claims great improvement in water quality, less health issues and increased appetites. So, when I was planning my pond, I decided to get one. I view it as providing the benefits of a trickle tower with greater water volume being processed than is typical of standard TT designs. I am processing about 5,000 gallons per hour through a small unit. Standard TT design would require a huge physical plant to handle that much water. Also, compare it to a de-gassing system such as are used in commercial aquaculture food fish production... far more baffles created by the filter media and multiple troughs than in the typical de-gassing design.

    I like the notion of using multiple sorts of filtration, because each affects the water in different ways. I would not use the Bakki Shower by itself; but, then, neither does Maeda. Originally J-mat and now Bacteria House in submerged application on a scale few koikeepers could emulate.

  3. #13
    Nisai Mike Mazur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Cedar grove, NJ USA


    I heard that with that new wonder media there is and increasing need for j mat, for guests to wipe their feet on before entering the bacteria house !

  4. #14
    Jumbo koinut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Sacramento, CA.
    I also heard of the so called NEW latest and greatest thing to come out of Japan which are Bio Balls of some sort made of Titanium? Has anyone else heard or have any information on this new filter media?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    In terms of Bakki shower, I can attest the benefits, HUGE appetite! Another thing I noticed is the orp reading. After I moved at the end of Feb 05, I built a 2000 gallon concrete block pond (above ground) set it up with a double wide 4 stack Bakki shower. My fish load are extremely heavy, they were in two ponds in my old house, one 10000g and one 7000g. Total number are about 80ish ranging from 8 to 28 inches. 13 over 20". Now all of them are in this 2000G pond. So heavy is an understatement.

    This pond is filled with water on Apil 30th and all big fish are moved over on the same day. 30ish above 15". I put a bag of k1 media seeded from my old pond in the top tray. The kois were doing great in it with the Bakki. After a few days, I was thinking, at the present situation, the only thing I can do is to add more filtration. So, I added a nexus 300 with answer to the system. All these equipment are for the main pond which is still in progress. By the end of next week, I decided to move the rest of the herd.

    The pond has been running for about two months now, except a few that were sick, ulcers, the rest a doing great. I even think they grew quite a bit during the past two months, you know I cannot resit feeding. Of course it is very controlled amount.

    About a month ago, I was reading a thread about RO and stuff and it reminded me that I need to test my water. I am not much of test guy, but I did pull out PH, ORP meters. PH was 7.9, Orp was 160. I would say about 3 week ago, the ORP reading went up to over 400. It stay over 300 to 400 ever since.

    So, my guesses are both filters are mature and doing a good job.

  6. #16
    Nisai simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    kent uk

    bacci showers

    Maeda does run ponds on only the bacci shower system the ponds range from 2000 gallons depending on water depth.Also the 100 ton ponds are run only by the bacci shower. Pumping chamber direct to shower, no submerged media. see picture.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Momotara Pond Design with Bakki Shower-dsc01563.jpg  

  7. #17
    Sansai tewa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Hi Diego

    let me attempt to answer some of your questions. Firstly i do agree that everything maeda does is sometimes hard for the normal hobbyist to follow but you must remember that they stock a lot more koi than the average hobbyist in each pond. Those that have been to the farm can attest to that. And the 1500 ton pond contains koi worth millions of yen so the best environment must be given to them. This is not saying that just cause we have less expensive koi we should not give the best environment but we should all give the best environment to what we can afford. The submerged filters where jap mat used to be are replaced with bacteria house that have huge amounts of air pumped underneath the media to ensure no waste sits at the bottom and all waste is consumed. Secondly I have run bakki showers on 100% volume turnover per hour and water parameters were fine. And i still had koi growing at 5 to 6cm a month. I believe running it at even 100% per hour is still better than running a normal submerged filter with the same flow rate. I at least know that i am adding ample oxygen to the system as well as degassing nitrates and CO2 at the same time, something that any submerged filter by itself does not do. I now run it at 2.3 times per hour as i feel it is just the better thing to do. My pond is outdoor where leaves and dirt can be a problem but if you have a decent skimmer setup that should not be a worry I just put up some metal posts with wires running from one the other and use shade cloth to cover the sides and the top (not the best but if i could afford a greenhouse i would)

    As to huge electricity cost well i run a 68000L pump using 1000 watts. Yes that is a lot of electricity but the size of my pond is 30,000L. I think a lot of people are forgetting they probably spend the same amount of money on one koi for their annual electricity bill. If you could not afford the electricity bill or bigger pumps than you could always go with a smaller pond. I believe ian graham has a 15ton pond for his tosais and they grow at 5 to 6cm a month using RO and bakki showers only. Smaller ponds equates to smaller pumps less cost. Momotaro uses three phase submersible pumps that use 400 watts (consumption wattage) for a pump that does 60ton an hour and 44ton at 2m head. Their middle size pump uses 750 watts for 90 ton an hour with 74 ton at 2m. Their largest pump is 180 ton an hour with 144 ton at 2m head using 1500 watts. So they are not using pumps with huge electricity consumption or trying to move the hobby in a direction of high energy and water consumption. It is just we may not have access to such good pumps. I believe its all what you want from the system. The question is are you happy with your fish smelling their waste when it sits in your settlement chamber of your biological chamber. Are you happy that the prized koi you pay so much money for from Japan is in an environment that has an increase risk of bad bacteria growing in the sludge of settlement chambers and biological chambers.

    In regards to large water changes every japanese breeder does it because their stocking levels are so high. And they need to keep up this kind of stocking level because thats where the money is. If your income was dependent on the koi why would you not change that much water since it is good for the koi. The scenario is very different for a breeder if he has to sell many koi to make a living but for a hobbyist we only have to just maintain one pond for our viewing pleasure, it doesnt affect how many meals we have a day, so the breeder has to do the best for the koi. I believe that the volume of water change should be dependent on the tds levels, if you have a slightly stocked pond than you would be able to maintain the tds of the water at say maybe even 1 or 2% flow in a day. I have a 30 ton pond and with my stocking ratio during the height of summer i was adding about 750 to 1000L a day. Doing more water changes is not a bad thing it is just what you can afford, some of us are on meters, water cost different everywhere, where i live its not that expensive. If you could not afford the water bill than keep less koi only koi of high quality (in your eyes ).

    As for showers in cold countries a lot of mike customers insulate the shower with polycarb, the showers even come with brackets to hold the polycarb in place.

    As to having the UV on the settlement chamber, yes it is true bacteria is widespread all over the pond but certain species prefer environments with less oxygen and more waste and the number one spot would be your settlement chamber (unless this chamber was flushed every hour or more) than your biological chambers that is why we try to aerate the biological chamber not only to give oxygen to good bacteria but to provide a unfavourable environment for bad bacteria since we cant aerate the settlement chambers. It is also similar to a case of good bacteria in the human gut keeping us in check but if we took an antibiotic and gave the bad bacteria a chance to grow more than its normal numbers than it can cause us problems as well. So we are just rying to eliminate the bad bacteria hence all the hygiene and equipment in labs and hospitals. True no specific studies were done but then again you can't produce a study for everything in life sometimes just some logical common sense goes a long way.

    As to the far infrared rays, yes its not something that can be proven easily. I am not a physics specialist but i believe that the high temperature heating for extended time actually changes the physical atomic structure (neutrons, electrons etc) of the original ceramic ingredients to a stable state where it continues to emit infrared rays due to its changed physical atomic structure. A bit like changing nuclear isotopes to emit radiation by changing the number of electrons or neutrons (i am not aphysicist so if i get this all wrong please forgive me). End of the day it is the result that counts which is healthier koi in a more oxygenated environment with healthier appetites due to the system's ability to quickly reduce fish waste and hence increase growth rates and better skin quality.

    hope this helps

    best regards

  8. #18
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    I just installed a new TT. After looking at all the TT media options, I decided on coral rubble. The pond is about 10,000 gallons and now has a half-yard (380 liters) of media. The coral pieces are about 5-10 cm with irregular shapes. Because each piece is the remains of a discrete coral colony, coral rubble has more voids and crevices than crushed coral rock. In addition to buffering pH changes, coral is renowned for the fact that it emits yellow cosmic rays which have remarkable healing powers. The range of healing effects is too broad to list here, but for more details just Google coral and yellow cosmic rays and you will find numerous sites such as http://www.pankajkhanna.com/gems_coral.php. After you have experienced the effects of yellow cosmic rays you will find that far infrared rays are far inferior rays and just do not measure up.

    -steve hopkins

  9. #19
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Orlando, Florida
    Lol !!!! !!!!!

  10. #20
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Eh Bruddah! I tink you been in da raze too long.. Cause da raze iz making you da Kine COSMIC....


    The No Bakki Shower guy... Stilll Waiting for mine to be built

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