Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Bakki Showers: Where's The Dirt?

  1. #1
    Tosai
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    48

    Bakki Showers: Where's The Dirt?

    There has been a lot of activity on the boards lately about Bakki Showers, with the big question being, as always, where does the waste go?

    My BS has been operating since the first week of May. In that period of nearly 3 months, all I've done is remove the few tree leaves that somehow get blown under the cover into the top media tray. I also remove leaves (& frogs) that get caught in the leaf basket of the pump leading to it. The water first goes through a skimmer with a fairly open mat. A separate skimmer feeds a bead filter. The bead filter collects plenty of glarf over the course of a week. What about the Bakki? Both get approximately 5,000 gallons of water per hour.

    The water fed to the Bakki returns through two underground 4" pipes. As shown in the thread on the pond's construction, the returns are plumbed into the base of the bottom tray and stand a little over an inch above the base of the tray. The bottom try is filled with Bacteria House media. Given the amount of glarf captured in the bead filter, it seems logical to me that there would be a layer of sediment in the bottom tray of the Bakki.

    Today I checked out the bottom tray. There was sediment... a fine dusting of sediment. There was no thick layer of sediment. It seems to me there should have been more.

    The 3 pictures show the undisturbed media in the top tray, the bottom tray with some media removed (after turning off the pump and letting the water stop draining from above), and a closer shot of the same (sorry for the blur).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bakki Showers: Where's The Dirt?-dsc01996.jpg   Bakki Showers: Where's The Dirt?-dsc01994.jpg   Bakki Showers: Where's The Dirt?-dsc01995.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Now, these photos show that sediment does gather, but it is so little that the metal bottom of the tray can be seen. Among the sediment is a sandy residue of grit from the BH media. I'd guess about half the volume of the sediment is a dusting of that grit.

    I do not know if the same results would apply to a Bakki supplied from a bottom drain. Conceivably, the detritus going through it is very light weight (since picked up by the skimmer), and as a result does not settle easily, but stays in suspension to be returned to the pond. I would note, however, that each week I stir up more sediment that has settled on the bottom of the skimmer than is on the bottom of the bottom tray of the Bakki. What I stir up from the bottom of the skimmer flows to the Bakki. That is, sediment that is heavy enough to avoid being sucked into the pump moving 5,000 gallons per hour is not building up in the bottom tray of the Bakki where the presence of BH media prevents direct flow to the outlet pipes.

    I do not believe in Far Infra-red Rays etc. being a factor. I expect it has to do with the type of microbes housed in the media. However, my purpose here is just to report what I found.

  3. #3
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    167
    MikeM2 thanks for bringing this up.

    I have voiced my concern in another forum last year as to what happens to the solids in such a set-up when there is no sedimentation chamber with supply direct to the BS/BH at a high turnover rate. I would presume the solids is "pulverised" into solution which led me to another fear of the possibilty of this causing hikkui in the long term. This has become a real fear and I would be more than glad, and for the sake of all of us who are contemplating trying this, if those who are already using this set-up would be so kind as to give us your experience esp with reference to hikkui.

    Let me tell you why it has become a real concern. One of our senior koi hobbyist with a 100ton pond who had converted his TTs to this BS/BH setup using 1 ton of the BH. Despite all this claim of better and crystal clear water (I am still appalled by people claiming that crstal clear water means good water), and good water parameters as tested with meters this friend of mine has informed me that some of his priced kois are developing hikkui. I hope this is just coincidence and your sharing of your experience will be much appreciated.

    Thanks, dtbh

  4. #4
    Tosai kenshi4lyfe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    24
    may I ask what hikkui is?

  5. #5
    Sansai tewa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    226
    hi mike

    can i recommend a little experiment, not here to start any arguments had my hands full at koiphen.

    On your very last tray where the 2 4 inch pipe are plumbed in try, raising the media by putting like a plastic grid that has large square holes below the media raise it around 2 inch with your 5000 gallon flow. The purpose of this is to lift all media of the floor so that none is submerged.

    After that see whether this any sediment left besides the white grit or any sediment on the pond floor or drains. When you have tried it for a few weeks i will tell you why i recommended it.

    hope it helps


    tewa

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,198
    Know this isn't my own thought but I heard a fella speak at the BKKS and he seemed like a bright chap...he even had a fish at the show that won GC...can't remember his name though...but this stuck...

    "if you have enough wood for a HUGE bonfire on Guy Fawkes day (Blimey whots dat?), what do you have left the day after? Very little."

    Just something to consider.

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    seattle, wa
    Posts
    6,340
    way to go Twea! You've put your finger right on the problem. the dietrius or grit
    will go somewhere else. But the cure of gathering within the filter itself should be remidied. That's how my unit is designed. You do want a settling system so eventually you can catch and discard.

    I know Arthur who posts and advertises here on KB talked with Kerin Koi at the Portland show. If i understood the conversation correctly my next BH purchase may very well be coming out of oregon. I have another 3 decker built to my specs that i need to get BH for. I figure while others wait to get the info
    that others are learning, I'll continue to get what i need thru personal experience. Too bad BH doesn't produce an infra-blue that could highlight the blue in my asagi's! I have a Bakki shower on the babies pond and I have seen them grow and inch or more during the last month!

  8. #8
    Sansai tewa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    226
    Hi Dick

    I had that same problem when i just placed media in the bottom tray what happen was the water that return to the pond only exits the tray one side thus part of the media becomes submerged. This submerge media acts to trap the fines that were not filtered on this first run but what i have found was exactly what daisuke said to mike when using BH submerged the fine detritus will be eaten up by the bacteria on the second time round the filter or third time round thus the fast flow recommended. I don't see any fine sediment in the pond after i raised the media from my bottom tray. I moved all the media to the upper three trays and found that the filter worked so much better and water became even clearer in a week. Hope my experience helps you guys

    tewa

  9. #9
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    167
    With due respect to all, if you have read my posting carefully, I am not saying that the BS/BH system causes hikkui.

    Since a senior member has reported that his kois have developed hikkui and coincidentally he is using this system, it is my duty to report it to see if others are having the same problem. Like you have said, it was probably due to other factors but until such time that this has been figured out by this member, we just have to look out for it.

    Breeders are unlikely to have problems with hikkui as their kois will only be in their concrete ponds for a few months while the rest of the time they will be in the mudponds.

    Judging from the reports there are no doubts that BS/BH works. I am just interested in the longterm (bad) effects, if any, which only time will tell. It is not possible to do longterm experiments on hikkui for obvious reasons. The results and experience of those using this system therefore will be good indicators. Arowana will never develop hikkui.

    Thanks.

  10. #10
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bastrop Texas
    Posts
    261
    The interesting question to me is-- what does happen to the poop? I don't mean
    the bit that might collect in the bottom of a tray, but all the fish waste, etc.

    My experience is with shower water pumped directly off the bottom with no settling or prefilter in front.

    I suspect it is pulverized by the pump, thrown over the media and the heterotrophs eat it. It can't just be all pulverized and washed over the side with the outflow water. Heres why I think that.

    Back in the early months when the BH and lava rock shower tanks were cycling, they both had a tremendous amount of DOC foam, even with the flush through water. After a few months there was no more foam.

    Now, when I turn the semi-open system water off, in a few days there is a bacterial bloom and cloud that smells definitely heterotrophic ( a sewer smell ) but no DOC foam.

    So, if it were just a pulverization thing, there would be DOC foam when the flush water was turned off, right?

    However, when that flush water is turned off and nutrient builds up, the heterotrophs in the water column go crazy. This sysyem has got to have the flush water to work, in my experience.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Question regarding Bakki Showers
    By kookiblob in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-23-2010, 10:26 PM
  2. Bakki Showers Revisited
    By Jake Levi in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-03-2010, 08:25 AM
  3. The Origin of Bakki Showers?
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-22-2007, 12:07 PM
  4. QT with bakki showers.....
    By dinh in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-07-2006, 10:30 PM
  5. In prize of Bakki Showers.
    By Maurice in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-15-2005, 03:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com