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Thread: the best jumbo gosanke breeders today?

  1. #1
    Sansai
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    the best jumbo gosanke breeders today?

    Hi all,

    id like to ask who in your opinion are the top five jumbo gosanke breeders today and why?

    top five kohaku breeders
    top five sanke breeders
    top five showa breeders


    also where do you feel some of the most respected breeders of the recent past feature today, names such as dainichi and ogawa?

    over to you...

  2. #2
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    id like to ask who in your opinion are the top five jumbo gosanke breeders today and why?

    When we talk about "Jumbo" are we talking about the breeder that grows the biggest or best overall quality? Since this is best "Jumbo" I will go this route.

    top five kohaku breeders
    1. Sakai Hiroshima 2. Momotaro 3. Sakai Isawa 4.Yamamatsu 5.Torazo
    top five sanke breeders
    1. Sakai Hiroshima 2. Momotaro 3. Sakai Isawa 4.Yamamatsu 5.Torazo
    top five showa breeders
    1. Sakai Hiroshima 2. Momotaro 3. Takeda 4.Omosako 5.Isa


    also where do you feel some of the most respected breeders of the recent past feature today, names such as dainichi and ogawa?

    These breeders, thou were great during the times under the great owners, like Minoru Mano and Elder Ogawa who have past on. Like the saying says about Dainichi, "There are koi from Dainichi and there are Dainichi koi"...
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

  3. #3
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Sounds accurate to me. I was just wondering if the results of recent japanese koi shows reflect this order? It is hard to get such detailed information on each class of fish. It is easy to get info on the grand champion...but what about all the other awards?

  4. #4
    Sansai
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    Edit: forget that,

  5. #5
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Over the years since the originator of the daiinichi name expired much has been said both pro and con regarding the ability of the sons to produce the same quality koi as their father. I think you do a dis-service to the sons if you don't
    see what they have been doing lately.

    aside story: A few years back while visiting daiinichi with peter waddington and other guests, a canadian was introduced to the second eldest son. His name is
    pronounched "she-gay ru ". For some reason, he couldn't pronounce it properly and would call out down the green house "sugar-roo"! Everytime I think of ,or hear the name daiinichi I remember than incident and think of the long suffering second son!


    I,m a big fan of the sakai's both Isawa and hiroshima, Momotaro koi and i think Ogata does a really nice job without alot of credit. Isa's showas are awesome!

  6. #6
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz
    Sounds accurate to me. I was just wondering if the results of recent japanese koi shows reflect this order? It is hard to get such detailed information on each class of fish. It is easy to get info on the grand champion...but what about all the other awards?
    My picks dont reflect resent winnings, but the fact that Jumbo was thrown out...Those breeders that I listed are probably the best Jumbo breeders in the world..Well, in the koi world a breeder isn't really a breeder until he wins "Best in Size"...with that said I think each of the breeders listed has done that...But I think the best all around "Jumbo" breeder would have to go to Sakai Hiroshima, their track record is not only long in Japan but all-over the world.

  7. #7
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    My point was really that in other "show sports" such as dog shows, you can get the info and rankings. You can easily find out who won each division, who was the owner, and who was the breeder. I wish koi shows were more "sports style" with information on rankings and breeders. I think it would be interesting to pick favorites and root for underdogs. "Hey..I hear Sakai may do it again, but Torazo has a huge kohaku that may just pull it out" Sounds crazy...but it would probably be fun!!! It would also help us know who is really on top of their game during any given year. Should help us all with buying new koi.

  8. #8
    Sansai
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    thanks for the replies so far,

    i was wondering if anyone would list Ueno showa with the fact that he had two showa considered for grand champion at the last all japan show, personally i dont know enough about this breeder to comment. though i was highly impressed with one of his showa at the show which in my mind was better than the Maruyama grand champion at least for skin quality, then again i felt the sakai Kohaku should have won overal so what do i know!

    Sakai Hiroshima...
    i too like Sakai Hiroshima a great deal and consider him to be the best overal jumbo breeder around at this time, especially the Kohaku (the hi and body shape in particular) i also feel their Sanke are the best, for Showa i really like Takeda.

    Momotaro...
    i like momotaro also but i find the Hi on the Sanke a little too orange for my taste, though the body shape for momotaro Gosanke comes accross as powerful, strong and very consistant. amazing what he has done in such a short time!

    Sakai isawa...
    great Koi but personally i find their Sanke Sumi a bit splattery, though i feel in general the shiroji on his Gosanke to be excellent and more consistant than many other breeders. however personally i do not like the so called nigata-gin or weak ginrin effect his koi often show on what are meant to be non ginrin koi, to me this is a poor ginrin and not a pure non ginrin gosanke. even though i do understand that this type of fish can be very beautiful and impressive in thier own right, i personally find it distracting.

    dainichi...
    i like dainichi showa, i feel they still hold thier own.

    Ogawa...
    i was a big fan of ogawa some time ago but havent kept up to date with them over the last few years, i always thought thier best koi had incredible skin quality, i also liked the shape of thier heads, though pattern, shape and size was often hit and miss. having said that i loved the sumi on thier Sanke, very neat and rounded...the opposit of the sakai isawa splatter,
    but the ogawa shiroji especially on the kohaku was to die for. i have a video of sakai fish farm were they are trying to spawn Loulan...wow what a fish...even now, incredible!

    id like to ask are ogawa kohaku still considered as having one of the best if not the best shiroji or do you feel someone else now deserves the kohaku shiroji crown?

    kevan

  9. #9
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevan

    Ogawa...
    i was a big fan of ogawa some time ago but havent kept up to date with them over the last few years, i always thought thier best koi had incredible skin quality, i also liked the shape of thier heads, though pattern, shape and size was often hit and miss. having said that i loved the sumi on thier Sanke, very neat and rounded...the opposit of the sakai isawa splatter,
    but the ogawa shiroji especially on the kohaku was to die for. i have a video of sakai fish farm were they are trying to spawn Loulan...wow what a fish...even now, incredible!

    id like to ask are ogawa kohaku still considered as having one of the best if not the best shiroji or do you feel someone else now deserves the kohaku shiroji crown?

    kevan

    It's sad to say that Sakai Hiroshima tired many times to spawn Loran, but many of the babies came out deformed.

    Ogawa still has the best Shiroji for Kohak hands down, it is legendary and not a myth.

  10. #10
    Sansai
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    if possible id love to hear a few more opinions...Maurice, Brian anyone else?

    thanks

    Kevan.

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