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Thread: Aigoromo lost all colour... why?

  1. #11
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    Some ponds seem to be more prone to disappearing color than others. Mike T and I have a friend who seems to have been especially cursed with koi loosing hi - happened 3-4 times over a couple of years. In some instances, one hi plate will disappear while an adjacent hi plate will remain intact. I have taken some of this guy's orphans and the hi is slowly returning on one fish but not on others.

    -steve

  2. #12
    Sansai
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    general thoughts on colour loss...

    in an interview with Mr Nakayama of Ogawa koi farm he said that ph shock often causes a koi to go shiromiji, i belive he said this would often happen in malasia.

    myself i feel GH plays a big part if it is too high.

    also the breeders themselfs are often partly to blame as i know that they use shiro muji from time to time in their parent sets, i know hirishima sakai has for ginrin kohaku and i belive sakai isawa has also for sanke, in my mind shiro muji should never be bred from as while some of the fish may remain wonder ful there is always the gamble that its colour could go at any time, i would avoid any young koi bred from koi where one of the parents is shiromuji or going that way at an early age say under 10 years old if at all possible.

    i can see this also being a possible problem with momotaro koi as they now use tosai male in their breeding programs to speed things up.
    when of course its possible these very young parent fish could turn shiromuji in the following year or two.

    so breeders are partly to blame for introducing unstable genes into their breeding programs.

    it is all too often exclusively blamed on the koi keeper rather than the bloodline yet many breeder even among their best tatagoi and best mud ponds get a certain number of shiromuji when the mud ponds are harvested.

    kevan.

  3. #13
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Disappearing Hi is common enough. Disappearing Sumi in an Asagi-based koi over a period of weeks is something else. I can only think of one other instance, which involved a Suda Goshiki. The Hi on the Ai Goromo does look thin and the edges are wispy. So, I can accept the notion that this is just another instance of sudden Hi loss. But are there any thoughts on the cause for sudden loss of the Ai?

  4. #14
    Sansai
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    While i dont have a great deal of experience with Ai goromo, sometimes i wonder if the koi looses all colour (other than black in sanke and showa) rather than just hi on Kohaku based koi including the shiroji and in this case the ai?
    the reason i suggest this is that in a Kohaku i had which lost its thick Hi the Shiroji also appeared to thin and loose its thickness. leaving the head rather yellow and the white thin and off colour. perhaps the koi we often consider as loosing Hi are in fact loosing all colour?

    though as mentioned somehow the black in sanke and showa is often imune to fading, perhaps this is due to the fact that black is more closely gene related (and therefore more stable) to the natural koi colour of the magoi?

    kevan.

  5. #15
    Sansai koiloco's Avatar
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    Cool

    I once had a momotaro sanke purchased at 10" with excellent HI quality. He lost all Hi at 16" and became a bekko!

    No spawning was involved and water parameters were always good (daily tested).

    Just one of many mysteries in keeping koi!!!

  6. #16
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by koiloco
    I once had a momotaro sanke purchased at 10" with excellent HI quality. He lost all Hi at 16" and became a bekko!

    No spawning was involved and water parameters were always good (daily tested).

    Just one of many mysteries in keeping koi!!!
    hi
    this is what happened to my momotaro sanke in the space of a month
    http://pic8.picturetrail.com/VOL255/...4/48253691.jpg

    http://pic8.picturetrail.com/VOL255/...4/57293481.jpg

    http://pic8.picturetrail.com/VOL255/...4/57293465.jpg

    http://pic8.picturetrail.com/VOL255/...3/88234144.jpg

    he is the only one this has ever happend to in my pond
    regards
    lee

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    A really interesting development..maybe you could be in for something like the koi at this link...?

    http://koi.com/reference/tategoi/2.php

    ~Raymond.

  8. #18
    Sansai Ian_&_Terri's Avatar
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    Aloha! MikeT We've noticed the same with the other koi(mostly gosanke) in our pond as well, and the growth! The Yokozuna seems like a very good food.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori
    Well, if the fish did spawn then it could have been the stress...but to me the best way to see how consistant the beni will be is the beni on the head. The beni on the head doesn't have a defined edge, meaning it is blurred...That sign is also a good way of finding good tanchos too...
    We've gone back into our picture files and really had a good look at Patch from the time he was brought home. Knowing better now what to look for... well the beni wasn't very thick. It's interesting too that the red spread on the head, he didn't have much when we got him - the bit on the nose grew up to the head marking. He also had more red over the body, especially between the shoulder and dorsal wrapping well below the lateral line which disappeared somewhat this past year.

    Loosing red is one thing, I still am not quite sure why the black went as well?

    vimes, that is quite a change, thank you for sharing it. It looks like some of the sumi disappeared on your sanke/bekko as well.

    Koi-Toys, if only that could happen with Patch. To at least have some colour back would be nice but I'm not very hopeful. Very nice story, thank you.

    Kind Regards,
    Terri

  9. #19
    Nisai brake san's Avatar
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    Yes it happens to the best of us, I have a sanke from toshio sakia, Two weeks ago it was looking great now konoko With in the next week it should be shiro bekko. Great shame but it happens, I heard it can be to do with water quality what is yours like.

    brake san

  10. #20
    Fry
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    Has anyone else noticed it seems like there are more folks losing hi this summer, or is it just that it is being discussed more? We've lost hi in the past on tosai usually after something like a power outage, but this summer some older koi have had more hi trouble and we thought it at least partly due to the extreme heat because our water is actually better than it has ever been. We finally got shade cloth to keep the water a bit cooler. Has it seemed to anyone else that there has been a rash of lost hi this summer? MJ

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