Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Bs/ Bm?

  1. #1
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,198

    Bs/ Bm?

    Ok another thread...not as much about BM (and since again if I could get BM for three times the price of Lava rock I would get it irregardless of who makes it or how assinine their sales staff is.....)

    Now this sort of "quote" of the parameters that are needed for a bakki shower to work its magic has bothered me from the first read through...

    "You definitely can feed bottom drain, it does not clog, turnover minimum of 1.5 but the more the better."

    the "1.5" there refers to pond turnover....

    and THAT bothers me. Pond turnover ain't gonna control if a PMS is going to work. The ratio has to be in relation to fish load (feed) / temperature/ PM Mass...

    now if pond turnover was the right call for BS's working then i could have a 20,000 gallon pond , maintained at 65 degrees)with 450 lb of fish (30 lb of food) and the BM would never clog if the pond turnover was 1.5?

    But if I had 30 lb of fish( 1.5lb of food per day) in a 25,000 gallon pond at 76 degrees, with a Normal bakki shower and was pushing 10,000 gph the media, the media would clog?

    By having Pond turnover as a parameter it appears as if the R&D(sales people) really didn't do "science" they did "what do you think the koi hobbyist needs to hear to use this stuff"?



    Another example would be the thousand gallon pond with a BS, are you going to tell me that if I flow 1500gph over the media that it will stay "clean" frrom the torrent of water?
    But if i have the same number of koi in a 9000 gallon pond yet only turn the pond over evry two hours the BS won't be as clean as the 1000gallon pond?

    Val, calls it bad science...I call it salesmanship...without any real research.

    i really do like the stuff. i just hate all the horsecrap that's it has been wrapped in in order to sell it.

  2. #2
    Sansai Bob Hart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Medway, Kent, England
    Posts
    269
    Luke,

    See if you can say something positive for a change. I cant speak for others opinions, but all you seem to do is 'slag' off other products. I'm looking at the start of this thread, but I doubt if I will look again, it's all so depressing and argumentative.

    Go buy a Bakki shower with BHM media and run loads of experiments. Flow rates, fish load etc. Then come back and tell us all what you've found out.

    Other do this, state their positive results, but of course all you want is an argument and to say it 'wont' work. Forget the sales hype, maybe it is all crap, but they work end of argument. Like everything you buy, you have to then make itwork for yourself.

    Send me a PM when you;'ve done your experiments, like Tewa I wont post again it's just all too negative, you just want to pick a fight all the time and it's putting me off using this forum.

    Bye Luke.
    Regards, Bob
    ><{{{{> ><{{{{> ><{{{{>
    <}}}}>< <}}}}><

  3. #3
    Sansai koiloco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    245

    Exclamation

    I was just about to say the same thing as Bob, but then it's already said.

    Until you try it yourself, let's cut all the crap until then.

    I live 2 blocks away from a guy with a 2000 gallon temporary pond and LOT OF BIG FISH (40 or more).
    He's running bottom drain to settling tank to BS. Crystal clear water and I tasted the damn water myself, can't even taste the fishy smell in the water.

    If you are just looking for an argument, I think we are all getting pretty tired.

  4. #4
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    england
    Posts
    14
    Hi,
    Probably regret butting in but ive often thought the same ie I can keep my 10 koi in 2000 galls of water with a 4 tier bakki shower(50 kg,s bhm)turned over at 150% and alls well ,so why couldnt i keep the same 10 koi in my 6000 gallon pond with one set of showers turned over at 150%.Surely the waste generated from my 10 koi is the same in 2000 galls as it is in 6000 galls.
    This is a innocent question and i aint knocking anything just wondered if someone could explain it a little better in simpletons terms.
    Thanks Paul.

  5. #5
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by deano
    Hi,
    Probably regret butting in but ive often thought the same ie I can keep my 10 koi in 2000 galls of water with a 4 tier bakki shower(50 kg,s bhm)turned over at 150% and alls well ,so why couldnt i keep the same 10 koi in my 6000 gallon pond with one set of showers turned over at 150%.Surely the waste generated from my 10 koi is the same in 2000 galls as it is in 6000 galls.
    This is a innocent question and i aint knocking anything just wondered if someone could explain it a little better in simpletons terms.
    Thanks Paul.
    Of course its the same amount of waste, but its only finding its way into contact with the bacteria 1/3rd as much as when its in the 2000 gallon pond.

    The spec is one shower for evey 2000 gallons, turned over a minimum of 100% upto an optimum of 200%. There is a large window to aim at to be comfortable. They obviously dont take stocking into acocunt because they assume people have the sense to stock correctly, the figures quoted are at maximum stocking rates I would imagine.

    As stated, this is very boring now and verging on obsessive.

  6. #6
    Sansai GazKoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Essex UK
    Posts
    229
    I have be looking around lately and i have to admit there seems to be a growing trend for knocking the BHM & Showers which all seem to be turning into silly arguments Would it not be best for the guys who want to argue to just PM each other and keep it off line so some of us can have a decent chat!!


    Come on guys we are all in the same hobby lets try to help each other and not argue as on some other forums i am begging to stop looking and that would be a shame if i do the same with this one as its a great site.
    Regards

    Gazza

  7. #7
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    england
    Posts
    14
    Hi Daz,

    If both ponds are being turned over @ 150 % turnover the media will be dealing with more water but the same amount of waste surely.Is there a max flow the Bh media can handle.
    Cheers Paul.

  8. #8
    Fry
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    england
    Posts
    7
    hi deano

    there is the same amount of waste from the same fish load granted,but the flow rate through one set of showers is 3000gals,so one set does a 2000gal pond turned over at 150%,if you wanted to turn your 6000 gall pond at 150% this would mean 9000gph put over the shower,the flow would be too great for 0ne shower to handle the bio film would probably be washed off the media this is why you would need 3 sets flowed at 3000gph each for 6000gals,a lower turn over the shower would probably handle the fish load biologically with no pre filtration but the water clarity would be crap.
    i too am getting tiered of the negative aspect to every post on bakki showers,it seems near everything posted by shower user's is treated as bullshit and most of the negative things posted are pure speculation by the posters at best.sure every one would like answers this is what boards like this are for,but it seems most of the showered posts turn into a personal insult thing,which just goes to put people of posting there finding,so we all lose.
    showered ponds do work no question in my mind.i have all the prove i need in my garden.
    cheers Dave.

  9. #9
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by deano
    Hi Daz,

    If both ponds are being turned over @ 150 % turnover the media will be dealing with more water but the same amount of waste surely.Is there a max flow the Bh media can handle.
    Cheers Paul.
    Yes m8 I believe there is a maximum flow for one shower. Its normal to couple one shower to one sequence 1/4+ which puts nearly 3000 gallons an hour over hence the 150% of the 2000 gallons per shower recommendation. I think the maximum over one shower is 4000 gallons, which is 200% of the 2000 gallons per shower rule.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,198
    Contrary to opinions shared here, I am not against BM. I feel as though it is much better than lava rock.
    I am against the way so much of the products have been marketed to the average koi hobbyist. And this is a prime example.
    The entity that supposedly did all the research seems to seperate this porous media from others not with research but with half-baked FIR, and the logic behind how to run the BS is not science based either, and the product has undergone another change...after all the R&D.

    So while I have nothing bad to say about the performance of the BS, I do have quite a bit to inform hoobyist of when it comes to the marketing strategy of a VERY GOOD porous media.
    Just as with koi...we are being sold the "sizzle" and not the steak...BM works. BM works well.
    Now how and why needs to be found out by critical thinkers and not marketing teams, and zealous salesmen.

    i am intrigued with the results I've gotten with a Lava rock Shower, I think it would be even better with BM.
    Having studied ceramics from a potter's interest I know the media is NOT expensive to make...for one thing the number of hours stated for the ceramic to mature to the hardness desired is not needed.
    I can fully mature a cone 10 porcelain clay body in 10 hrs..the only reason to keep a kiln going any longer is if a huge mass of green clay is being sent through a low fire kiln...as in brick making. Or to finish a glase as in some of the hill kilns.

    I am pro BM Steak. But I am also tired of the "sizzle" being the focus of many products...including this one.
    MANY other medias may be developed or have already been developed that are less over-priced and are not hyped in a snake oil fashion.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com