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Thread: Tragedy again..microscope pics..HELP!!!

  1. #1
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Tragedy again..microscope pics..HELP!!!

    So Its a while since most of my fish died. I have gotten some new fish..quarantined for 3 weeks and everything. As you see..a microscope as well. Anyway, everything is begining to happen just like last time. The signs I am seeing are as follows:
    1)The fish I have had in the pond the longest...have huge bloated bellies. Reminds me of dropsy. some scales lifted. (THIS TIME I DONT THINK THEY ARE PREGNANT!!!)
    2) There are a few small ulcers...but one fish had a large one under his chin..this is the only fish that died.
    3) They are still eating
    4) They are still reasonably active.
    5) No Gasping...and the gills on the dead fish looked fine.
    6) some flashing

    So far I have :
    salted for 3 days to .03%
    Did several water changes
    Then began using quick cure( formalin and malachite green)
    I left it in for several hours. Did a 50% water change.
    Repeated the next day, with 50% water change.
    I took these slides on my microscope after these treatments. (I had a scope and no slides yet!!). There is a video included to see something moving.
    The swabs were done from 4 fish
    In the gills..anus...everywhere I could swab!!!
    I began feeding the fish anti parasite food from jungle labs with praziquintel.

    On the slides, I thought I saw costia and flukes. Please tell me what you guys think. I really need help!!! I cant believe this again!!! I bleached the pond..and every bowl, net, everything!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Jumbo Tom C's Avatar
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    Have you tested your water?

    I'm no pro, but I don't see any bugs. Just a lot of waste.

  3. #3
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Here are 3 before and after pics...taken 5-6 weeks apart. These fish feel like water balloons to pick up. I just feel awful!!!
    The food I'm giving them has metronidazole, praziquintel, and levamisole.
    All my water parameter are good. Ammonia-0, nirite-o, nitrate -5, oxygen-8-9,
    ph-7.2. All good!! Gotta be some type of infection!! Only costia can be this tough. I read that drying it out wont even kill it.

  4. #4
    Sansai marco's Avatar
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    Hi, B.., the only thing I can see on a microscope is the presence of Flukes (on the 3rd, 8th and the two last). Flukes can give ulcere, and are well treated by Supaverm (see on koi-vet.com). I have the impression that you have the two kind of flukes, the gill flukes and the skin flukes. The skin flukes can be treated with one treatment, but the gill flukes need a second and even a third treatment with a week in between each treatment. Normaly the praziquantel should work too, but I think that putting Supaverm in the water, you'll have a better result because you will kill non fixed larvae.
    Normaly after the treatment of formalin and gree malachite you should not need to give medicated food, but try to higher the water temperature and put massiv oxygen in the water.
    Hope that will help you ..
    Marco

  5. #5
    Sansai marco's Avatar
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    I just forgot to tell you to take care af metronidazole, it's really toxic if you overdose it or if you use it too long (brain damage and irreversible...)

  6. #6
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Brutuscz: I think you need to get an experienced Koi Health Advisor to pay a visit. The fact that you sterilized your system, quarantined the fish, etc tells me that something is happening that needs hands-on, eyes-on investigation. Dropsy-type symptoms usually mean internal organ problems, which could be related to bacterial infections but could be other causes. If the fish were doing fine in q-tank and ulcers start upon going into the pond, it would seem something is in the pond causing it, but it could be something "in the fish" which starts to show only after a longer period than you gave them in the q-tank. Maybe it is so simple as re-experiencing new pond syndrome, but you have exhibited enough knowledge that I'd think you'd be on to that through water tests. ...BTW, since you treated with F/MG before using the scope, it is kind of difficult to know what was there before. You may have gotten rid of parasites at the root of the problem and now need to treat for the secondary problems.

    Good luck.

  7. #7
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Listen to Mike and get some experienced person to assist you hands on. I don't see any parasites in your still shots but it is very hard to find parasites unless they are still alive and wiggling or swimming around. Dropsy can come from internal bacterical infections or from kidney problems.

  8. #8
    Jumbo Tom C's Avatar
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    Ray wouldn't high ammonia or nitrites cause it? I had some problems in my pond not to long ago and it was all do to bad water. Well it was do to a product that claimed something and didn't do what it said. But it was also do to a bad water test kit. How old is your test kit?

  9. #9
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Hi Guys. The image on the left was from a vets website. The image on the right was from mine. I could swear that looks like costia. Please let me know if you think I'm right. Those were flukes too...correct?!?! I can assume a secondary bacteria, by nature of the dropsy. Usually pseudomonas and aeromonas? I dont know when I can get a health advisor to come...I will try. In the mean time, I will remove all the fish with dropsy and treat separately for a bacterial kidney infection. I will then deal with flukes in my main pond. I have read that usually the flukes give the secondary bacterial infection. If I can eradicate flukes from the main pond...maybe I can prevent the other fish from getting the secondary infection.
    If it is costia...it should mostly be dead from the 2 high dose treatments of form/mal green?
    Until I can get more help:
    main pond ---flukes
    treatment tank--- flukes and secondary bacteria in kidney
    both...costia ...already nuked...hopefully
    I will not heat anything!!! Last time I thought it was khv...I tried heating, then they ALL started to die!!! I know that heat definitely will make it 100% worse.
    Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it!!

  10. #10
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Costia don't look like much at 400x in my experience. If you scrape the koi and put it immediately under the scope you will see costia zooming around in every direction. I thought I had costia a couple times until I saw it for real. There was no doubt what it was then.
    Koi-Unit
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