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Thread: The belief of growing tosai to something great.

  1. #1
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    The belief of growing tosai to something great.

    I was sitting here(working hard of course ) today and was wondering how many people think they can grow a tosai to greatness. Meaning one year the tosai wins BGC, two years later YC and so on and so on...Is it possible here in the states or any where else besides Japan....

  2. #2
    Jumbo koinut's Avatar
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    IMHO I think that people have the notion that if they buy a good tosai, they have a real good chance of having a full blown GC on their hands. The only thing I see wrong with this is that the breeder would never let go of anything that is worth keeping for a few more years. If the breeder were to let's say a dealer, or even a hobbyist purchase the tosai, he'll probably have a contingency on keeping it on for growing at his facility and giving it a shot at the All Japan. The other problem I see is that when the breeder has a true tategoi, the koi wouldn't very good for show purposes now, so the hobbyist would then try, in the best way he or she knows to just keep the koi in it's best conditions. I believe if a koi peaks early in its life that, it may not keep that condition when it matures. The only way I can see a koi grown from tosai to GC is in a very small show.

  3. #3
    Jumbo
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    tony,
    I am also sitting here, harly work..

    I think you are talking 'tatekoi' tosai ? Kevin said 'you buy a big dream in tatekoi'. I bought a number fo those, and the dreams have not come true, some have even turned into nightmares.

    stan

  4. #4
    Sansai jbolding's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I believe that most show quality koi that are available here in the US do not have the potential to be perennial Champions at each stage of their life. I do however believe that most of these show quality koi will have their day when they are better than all of the available competition. If we are lucky they may even have a few of them.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    mY EXPERIENCE HAS TAUGHT ME THAT KOHAKU IS THE BEST COLOR VARIETY TO FOCUS ON WITH THE DREAM.

    iF i'M A FARMER i WILL SELL YOU MY BEST TOSAI AND YOU'LL PAY THR PRICE OF WHAT I WOULD GET FOR IT 5 YEARS FROM NOW...BUT I'LL SELL IT! i MAY WANT TO KEEP IT TO GROW ON IF IT'S REALLY GOOD.

    i DO THINK WE HAVE HOBBISTS HERE IN THE STATES/UK/EUROPE/ASIA WITH
    ENOUGH ABILITY TO PULL IT OFF.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    first, i don't think a GC will ever have a BGC and a YGC(?) and then become GC.
    If one does then it needs to get to the breeding pond PDQ. It'd be great to have a koi that stays up its whole growing Life.....that'd be worth alot of money.

    Second i think that there are koi hatched every year here in the US that could win GC at the major shows. The problem isn't the fry or genes of some of the parents used as breeders, the problem lies in us...the breeders don't have the knowledge with their lines to keep the best koi, the big time show hobbyist doesn't mess with pathetic (in his eyes) Domestic koi, and the hobbyists that get the fish that really do have the potential don't have a high enough standard as to what they need to do to actually get a true tategoi to GC. Those folks are playing with two year old Momotaros.

    But the silver lining....
    since there are some quality pairings (like KGT's) with really high quality genetics being used, done by fairly uneducated in terms of what the Masters know in Japan, Breeders (like KGT) then you could at least get at the true tategoi for a song...but it is YOUR eye or luck that would have to find it. I'm gonna try non-japanese breeder koi.

  7. #7
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquitori
    I was sitting here(working hard of course ) today and was wondering how many people think they can grow a tosai to greatness. Meaning one year the tosai wins BGC, two years later YC and so on and so on...Is it possible here in the states or any where else besides Japan....
    I am with KoiNut that the breeder would never let go of anything that is worth keeping for a few more years. However, some breaders let go the tategoi as a tosai such as Hoshino,Maruju...I have one Kohaku which I believe "tategoi". I will try to grow her in my pond and see what develops. As KoiNut mentioned, the koi wouldn't very good for show purposes now, but I will try to show her anyway

  8. #8
    Jumbo koinut's Avatar
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    I think that it's great to show off your future koi. It gives the hobbyists a chance to see what koi for the future look like. As one judge mentioned "If my koi win in this show, I will be dissapointed because that tells me that my koi are already finished and not have that good of a future." I myself love future koi that has loads of potential. Although not all will turn out the way you want, it's always a learning curve. Another thing to remember is that if you try a certain breeders koi that you shouldn't stereotype that particular line.

  9. #9
    Tategoi
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    Toni:

    Ask Joe or Kevin to tell you about the Shiro Utsuri that a breeder "gave" Kenneth because he was POed at another buyer who was trying to talk his price down...

    That koi may fit your scenerio... The koi blossomed, like no one expected, and the breeder has offered many time more than the selling price to get her back...

    Aloha! Mike

  10. #10
    Honmei keokoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T
    Toni:

    Ask Joe or Kevin to tell you about the Shiro Utsuri that a breeder "gave" Kenneth because he was POed at another buyer who was trying to talk his price down...

    That koi may fit your scenerio... The koi blossomed, like no one expected, and the breeder has offered many time more than the selling price to get her back...

    Aloha! Mike

    I remeber this koi.. Pretty amazing... She is a Perty gal... I thnk a lot of the AKCA attendies have seen her as well...

    Joe

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