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Thread: Ulcer Problem

  1. #1
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    Ulcer Problem

    First time with bad problem. I cleaned my main pond out yesterday and several of my koi have ulcers. I have got Tricide-Neo to use but I am scared to use it without some help from the members that have used it here with good results. This summer has been a real pain, perfect weather for parasite outbreaks.
    Ok I am going to salt my main pond and I have the pond salt, could someone please tell me just how much salt in cups that I need to put in my pond. I dont have a salt meter so I cant measure the amount. I have a 1200 gallon pond.

    Also I have a QT tank with a heater so I can QT, I just want to make sure this is ok to use and make sure I do this right. I have heard that you can kill koi if you dont do this just right, bleeding from the gills is one of the problems if I am not mistaken.

    I gave the koi a very strong salt bath after seeing the problem, on of the koi is in bad shape, and I salted him down with the table salt and he went wild, but he looked better after the attack. I hated to do this but I felt he really needed this as he has 7 bad places on him. I did not put any on his head but I had the water very salty to kill parasites. Was this ok. He is doing fine this morning and so are the rest of the lot.

    Really worried here, I have to have surgery the 21st so thats just a day away and I dont want my koi to die on me

    Help.
    Judy

  2. #2
    Nisai
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    Treating ulcers without finding out and correcting the underlying problem as to WHY they broke with ulcers is a losing battle. However, I understand that if you're going to have surgery, you may not have a lot of time to play Sherlock Holmes.

    Tricide-Neo takes several treatments to work; in this case, it won't work for you either. I would suggest topical treatment of the ulcers, and salt ain't gonna cut it. Find something to anesthetize the fish - Oil of Clove, MS-222, Tricane S - your choice. You will need peroxide, iodine, and extra-strength denture adhesive POWDER. Knock the fish out, swab the areas with peroxide, followed by iodine, then spray it with the denture powder. This forms a "bandage" that keeps the med in and the water out, and will wear off in 3-5 days or so, which gives the fish a chance to begin healing. Make sure you keep the peroxide and iodine out of gills, eyes, mouth, vent, etc.

    This treatment should only need to be done once, so you can heal while the fish are, too. But you'll need to find out WHY or WHAT is causing them to break out, and that needs to be treated, too.

    Good luck on your surgery - hope it's nothing serious.

    Lee

  3. #3
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    HI Lee, I have never done that either. It is somewhat scarey messing with sick fish. Can I do this and put them back in main pond?

    Im sure it was a parasite problem as the conditions here with the weather has caused a parasite outbreak. I have cleaned my pond more this summer because of it. First year I have had a problem, noticed fish flashing quite a few times. I have pea gravel on the bottom of my pond and that is coming out soon. I will never again have any gravel in the bottom of the pond, or at least the small stuff anyway, it is very hard to keep clean.

    Where can I get the Oil of Clove, can you get it a the grocery store or something? I dont have time to order, as I have to do this today. Or is this different stuff I am thinking about.

    Thanks,
    Judy

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    jUDY, GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SURGERY...

    OIL OF CLOVES SHOULD BE EASY TO FIND IN GROCERY STORE. aLSO IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FRIEND WHO'S A DENTIST YOU CAN GET THE SAME THING CALLED EUGENOL...

  5. #5
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    Thanks Dick, Should I put a airstone in the water and how long do I leave the koi in the water and how long will the koi stay out and what do I need to do to bring the koi around? How much water and oil/?

  6. #6
    Sansai
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    Hi, hope all goes well with your surgery


    I remember you bought 2 fish (maybe momotaro origin?) that had ulcers when you collected them. Are those fish 2 of the problem ones now? I don't know a huge amount about ulcers and obviously I haven't seen them but could they have introduced something to the others? Or are they still separated?

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    PLACE THE KOI IN YOUR CONTAINER OF POND WATER AND ADD 5-6 DROPS TO START. mIX THE DROPS IN BY HAND. ALLOW THE KOI TO SWIM AROUND FOIR SEVERAL MINS. iF YOU CAN'S SEE ANY SLOWING DOWN ADD 1 DROP. wITHIN A MIN OR TWO THEY SHOULD ROLL OVER. i LET THEM SIT A MIN AND THEN LIFT OUT OF THE WATER IF WITHIN THE FIRST 10 SECONDS OF BEING HELD THEY BEGIN TO FLOP, THEY GO BACK IN UNTIL i CAN LIFT THEM OUT AND NO FLOPPING (THEY STILL ARE SLOWLY BREATING. i THEN ADMINISTER THE TREATMENT AND PUT BACK INTO A BASIN OF CLEAN POND WATER WITH AIR STONE AND ALLOW THEM TO COME OUT ON THEIR OWN. iT GENERALLY TAKES AS LONG TO COME OUT AS IT DID TO GO UNDER. wHILE TREATING I PLACE THEM ON A DAMP TOWEL.

    THE ONE NEGATIVE THING ABOUT OIL OF CLOVES IS FOR MULTIPLE TREATMENTS OVER SEVERAL DAYS THEY BUILD UP A RESISTANCE TO THE OIL.
    iT TAKES LONGER AND LONGER TO PUT THEM OUT AND LONGER TO BRING THEM OUT. tHAT'S WHY I SWITCHED OVER TO AN EQUIVALENT OF 222.

    BUT IN YOUR CASE TRY IT FOR A DAY AND THEN AFTER YOU FEEL BETTER SEE HOW THEY ARE DOING.

  8. #8
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    Some people dissolve the clove oil in a little vodka and water first. Otherwise, you have to really swish it around to get it into the water. I do not use the vodka and start with 10 drops per gallon. You usually have to add more (a few drops at a time) to get them completely under. Here, the clove oil is found at the pharmacy.


    -steve

  9. #9
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I could not find the clove oil anywhere. I went to my local drug store and had them order the stuff. I will be haveing the surgery on my right knee in the morning, so after my surgery my next door neighbor is going to help me get these koi taken care of. I wont fill any pain as they will have me druged up. I am going to take pics of how I do this and post for everyone to see and I hope the koi makes it. The main one has 7 ulcers, and two are on the underside of the koi. This koi is going to my neighbors son, he is eight years old and loves koi. He has a very small pond and his dad is going to build him a big one.


    [email protected], I gave those two koi a good salt bath and they are ok now. There problem was not near as bad as these two koi. I think what happened to them was the seine that he used cut the koi and all they really needed was a bath and time to heal.

    Now I just hope I can do this and get this koi well, the little boy is very happy to have the koi and I dont want to disappoint him, as I dont have another big koi to give me yet.

    Thanks,
    Judy

  10. #10
    Jumbo mulberryjen's Avatar
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    Judy - consider ordering "Advanced Koi Care" by Nicholas Saint-Erne, DVM as a reference book. Lots & lots of useful information and photographs. Some of the stuff is way over my head (don't plan on doing any surgery to remove tumors on my koi in the near future). But plenty of information that is accessible by a non-vet.

    I personally feel better with a book or two on hand when trouble arise. That way I can still ask my koi friends questions, but obsess over the book in private until I feel better.

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