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Thread: Clay

  1. #61
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Gary, if you actually want to learn something for a change you might try looking a little closer to home instead of gazing off into the distance toward Wyoming. The Bentonite from the northern high plains is Sodium Bentonite. Right next door to you the folks in Alabama are mining one of the largest deposits of Calcium Bentonite in the world.

  2. #62
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Please, you're wasting my time with silliness at this point, I'm done.

    Not since "Jungle George' and "hot air" have I had to deal with such ignorance wrapped in a googling flurry. I enjoy it until it gets too stupid to respond further. King Kong, you're not also an anon called 'Jungle George' by any chance are you? King Kong= Jungle George
    has me wondering now. Will have to look at some old threads I have on other computers and see if the writing style is the same. Certainly the level of oddness is identical.
    We go into this mode when all else fails. Name calling and more nonsense. Next you will be taught a few more lessons in 'open' pond systems. You are lacking here as well.

  3. #63
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Bumping up for ion capture discussion.

  4. #64
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Thanks for the bump Mike. This was a great conversation almost to the very end

  5. #65
    Tategoi Louie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Gary, if you actually want to learn something for a change you might try looking a little closer to home instead of gazing off into the distance toward Wyoming. The Bentonite from the northern high plains is Sodium Bentonite. Right next door to you the folks in Alabama are mining one of the largest deposits of Calcium Bentonite in the world.
    A few years back some of us ordered bentonite that was mined in the mid west if i am not mistaken.
    one pallet was ordered we each got aboutv 2 sacks i found that it was too course ,
    i used it anyway. When you use Izeki refreash you could feel the difference. i bought some clay from a friend that has retired from the hobby he ordered it from Japan. Its about as close to Izeki as you can get.
    i would not waste my money buying from the Midwest again. cheap is cheap and you get what you pay for.
    i think my fellow hobbyist in So Cal would agree . I have no idea what the cost was ordering from Japan
    but my friend a respected hobbyist is Japanese so i think he got a good deal and passed it on to me with a big savings . if you want to order from the states have them send you a sample before you buy. i bought all he had and it should last me 7 -10 years . it did not cost me an arm and a leg. i hope you know exacly what you are buying be fore you commit. best Wishes,

  6. #66
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Talking about clay again, so bumping this up.

  7. #67
    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Talking about clay again, so bumping this up.
    Thanks Mike! Lots of reading/learning to do now...

  8. #68
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    When this thread was begun over a decade ago, adding clay to koi ponds was a practice much discussed and promoted. Nowadays, I do not hear much about it. There will be occasional comments that a person had one sort of issue or another, so they added clay to the pond. It is often very unclear why they thought clay would address the problem. ... When in doubt, add clay?? It seems to me that using clay on a regular basis was something of a fad that died out. Is that because over time people did not see real benefit? Or, it proved to be an expensive practice? ... the clay product marketed directly to hobbyists was certainly very costly for a few pounds of dirt.

    One of the supposed benefits of clay was to add minerals to the water. I never understood that idea, but I have moderately hard water. I would prefer it be softer, not more mineral laden. Around the same time clay usage began trailing off, Mike Snaden's promotion of soft water and low TDS was gaining awareness throughout the hobby. His approach has gained much acceptance. Today you are much more likely to find hobbyists focused on lowering TDS than on adding minerals.

    I always considered the primary benefit of clay to be the removal of contaminants from the water column via adsorption, as discussed in the initial post in this thread. Perhaps that is because I could understand the science behind that concept. But, it also related to old stories written by Peter Waddington. I recall one in which he imported a jumbo Sanke from Japan for the purpose of entering her in the BKKS National. To have her in top show condition, among other things, he liberally used clay on a daily basis. He claimed that it helped brighten her pigments and cleansed her shiroji. The idea of clay cleaning up the white ground was widely touted for a time. That idea made some sense, since we know that nitrate will cause yellowing and dull the skin. However, I do not see that commented upon so much anymore.

    The main reasons folks give for using clay these days is that it helps clarify the water (once it settles out) and somehow combats string algae. Both of these have some truth behind them, but what I find most illuminating is that the folks making such comments seldom rely on clay for either purpose. The typical comment will be along the lines, 'So, I added some clay and ordered new filter mats'; or, "I added clay and am trying to remember how much hydrogen peroxide to use to kill the algae."

    All of this was brought to mind by a comment on a British board: "I have tried various clay in the past, the only difference I noticed was the water went cloudy for a few days and my wallet got lighter. Now I just throw in a five pound note every week, same result but without the cloudy water."

    A couple of weeks ago I was rooting through stuff piled up in the garage and came across a bucket of clay. It must have gotten pushed into that dark corner many years ago. I guess I should use it up.

  9. #69
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    So lets see....I want an excellent mechanical stage so I implement a sieve with 200micron screen or better still, an RDF that can capture in the <50micron range and maybe a bead filter to do a final polish in the ,50micron range.......and then toss in clay?. Seriously?

    IMHO, if someone has to have clay to clean the pond....something is very wrong with some combo of turnover rate, amount of mechanical filtration, amount of UV, water changes, stocking levels, feeding levels....etc.

  10. #70
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    So lets see....I want an excellent mechanical stage so I implement a sieve with 200micron screen or better still, an RDF that can capture in the <50micron range and maybe a bead filter to do a final polish in the ,50micron range.......and then toss in clay?. Seriously?

    IMHO, if someone has to have clay to clean the pond....something is very wrong with some combo of turnover rate, amount of mechanical filtration, amount of UV, water changes, stocking levels, feeding levels....etc.
    Is clay soluble in water?
    If I dump a lb of clay in the pond, after a period of time I decide to suck it ALL up with a very very high tech sucking machine.
    How much would I suck up of the original lb of clay.?????
    Garfield

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