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Thread: Clay

  1. #71
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Montmorillonite clay was/is used as a flocculent to help with green and/or murky water in small ponds. I think the reason clay is not used much nowadays is the shift towards using ultra violet filters.

  2. #72
    MCA
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
    Is clay soluble in water?
    If I dump a lb of clay in the pond, after a period of time I decide to suck it ALL up with a very very high tech sucking machine.
    How much would I suck up of the original lb of clay.?????
    Garfield
    Try it and let us know.

  3. #73
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
    Is clay soluble in water?
    If I dump a lb of clay in the pond, after a period of time I decide to suck it ALL up with a very very high tech sucking machine.
    How much would I suck up of the original lb of clay.?????
    Garfield
    Not much. Clay is not soluble, although some constituent minerals may actually dissolve into the water. However, it is so fine that when it settles there is only a very thin film deposited on the surface of virtually everything. It is so thin a film that you do not see it.... unless you put in far more than is usually suggested.

  4. #74
    Sansai
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    Does clay do any thing to the slime coat on the fish, perhaps removing some of it so the colors appear brighter?

  5. #75
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Does clay do any thing to the slime coat on the fish, perhaps removing some of it so the colors appear brighter?
    Imho, clay does not directly affect the slime coat, but indirectly it could. Being a flocculant, bentonite clay would adsorb particles that would normally be suspended in the water column. These particles are usually fines that go through our mechanical filters that end up making the pond water cloudy - the coarser the particle that is allowed to go through, the more turbid the water, generally. If these suspended particles are in the pond water, it would be reasonable to assume they would have an effect on the slime coat, as they could be irritants. At the very least, I would expect a pond with less suspended particles to provide better conditions for our koi to swim in.

    As I have gradually improved my pond's mechanical filtration over the years, through both improvement of the filtration process as well as in the consistency of my filter upkeep, I've found less and less of a need to use clay as a flocculant. Not only that, I've founded that what I lose in the turbidity of the pond water I've gained in the amount of fines that accumulate in my biofilter, which I want to avoid. Even if the fines gained are not waste matter but are in the form of clay, it still impedes the biofilter's effectivity and can become a source of pathogenic colornization. Knowing that could happen, I would have to clean my biofilter each time I use a flocculant. This makes it more work to make it worth my while.

    Still, for pond with much less optimal designs in mechanical filtration, I still believe using clay as a flocculant can still be useful. When I want my pond to look clear for the big day when I have a party, for example, using clay to flocculate will make the pond look crystal clear. Or it I want to prep the pond for a koi going to a show, flocculation will also help. But clean the filter of clay fines after so doing..

  6. #76
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Does clay do any thing to the slime coat on the fish, perhaps removing some of it so the colors appear brighter?
    Like Yerrag, I do not think so.... at least not in a direct fashion.

    Increased water clarity would make colors appear brighter as Yerrag suggests. The idea usually put forward is that the removal of contaminants through adsorption results in the shiroji becoming more white. Nitrogenous molecules (ammonia and nitrate) tend to stain. (Tannins also stain.) They also tend to irritate. With irritation, there is increased slime production. The slime coat picks up contaminants, yellowing the overall appearance. So, in theory, over an extended period of use of clay, there would be reduced irritation, leading to lower slime production and that slime would not be as stained by contaminants. That's the theory. It was espoused by Waddington back in the day when he was responsible for a lot of BKKS National GCs, and was selling Refresh brand clay.

  7. #77
    MCA
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    If you want the benefits of clay, put koi into a muddy clay pond for the summer with low stocking levels, plenty of high protein food, and a gracious plenty of flow through water. The turbid water will shield the koi skin from the UV. Remember that mud ponds in locations such as Niigata have very low TDS/GH because the water is snow melt that has not had any time to pick up minerals.

    The notion of gin clear pond water and high quality koi skin are at odds. How many folk do you know that work outside all day, do not use UV blocks, and still have great skin quality?
    MikeM likes this.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  8. #78
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    If you want the benefits of clay, put koi into a muddy clay pond for the summer with low stocking levels, plenty of high protein food, and a gracious plenty of flow through water. The turbid water will shield the koi skin from the UV. Remember that mud ponds in locations such as Niigata have very low TDS/GH because the water is snow melt that has not had any time to pick up minerals.

    The notion of gin clear pond water and high quality koi skin are at odds. How many folk do you know that work outside all day, do not use UV blocks, and still have great skin quality?
    I agree that the turbidity in mud ponds help protect koi from UV, but a crystal clear pond can be covered with shade sail of heavy UV protection and it will protect the koi just as well from UV. As for UV blocks, people with more melanin in their skin take to sun and its UV much better than people with less melanin in their skin. More exposure to the sun makes me darker, but I don't feel my skin is any worse for it. Other factors such as nutrition play as large, if not more, a role in our skin quality than the amount of exposure to sunlight.

  9. #79
    Tosai Koiboy98's Avatar
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    I've been using "Oil Dri" product for years and with good results. I use it sparingly and not too often. It has about 100 nutrients listed on the bag. They grow better and look more colorful when I use it. I used to drive a semi and delivery huge quantities of it when I was a driver 20 years ago. It is 100% natural product dug in the earth of South Georgia. They make some changes at the plant which renders it not safe for fish, but the raw product is safe and very good for the fish. [in my opinion]. Before you do anything, research for yourself. A lot of people share a lot of info and it is best to research things before you go blindly by someone's suggestion. The product I use is Bentonite clay.

  10. #80
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    This clay shit is getting expensive...like $10 a year!

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