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Thread: Dubuque Arboretum lost 300 koi & need more; Can your club help?

  1. #11
    Jumbo gregbickal's Avatar
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    I e-mailed the TV station minutes after the story aired but still have not gotten a reply back. I am a member of the EIPS. Im sure when monday rolls around we will come up with something. I'll keep you updated.

    I have large bickalgoi I can donate as well.

    Poorly designed pond or not, the fact is koi dont survive well in Iowa if left outside. We had a very cold december followed by a warm spell. Disaster in any pond. Koi should be kept warm.

  2. #12
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbickal
    I e-mailed the TV station minutes after the story aired but still have not gotten a reply back. I am a member of the EIPS. Im sure when monday rolls around we will come up with something. I'll keep you updated.

    I have large bickalgoi I can donate as well.

    Poorly designed pond or not, the fact is koi dont survive well in Iowa if left outside. We had a very cold december followed by a warm spell. Disaster in any pond. Koi should be kept warm.
    i don't think that koi need to be kept warm during the winter. i have had many do well under a foot of ice for over a month.

    a quick warm up can cause disaster in even one acre ponds. the best explaination i have gotten is that the warmer water allows the bacteria in the bottom of the pond to go to work and multiply, eating the debris which has been dormant in colder temperatures and causing an anarobic situation. this works in conjunction with "pond turnover", thermoclimes, and the fact that water is densest at 39F.

    maybe someone can explain all this, i don't pretend to understand it, but i know that my koi have done fine under ice in the past.

  3. #13
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Joe, Did they "Do fine" of simply survive? It's not the feat of surviving the winter that counts, it's the spring and early summer that follows. Surviving means losing out in their ability to resist illness, stunted growth and general depreciation of other qualities such as color and skin quality.

    Even if you didn't manage to kill them, a foot of ice is NOT a good thing where koi are concerned.

    B.Scott

  4. #14
    Sansai
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    i am talking not about show quality koi here.

    if a koi has problems and you put him in cold water it will exascerbate those problems as his immune system goes down.

    a healthy koi will do fine under ice. the only problem i have had is what i believe to be called "carpox", waxy growths on the fin, and they go away with warm water.

    they do not eat, but lose very little weight when they are torpid.

    i treat them with .6% salt and demilin in the spring when it warms up and again in the summer and fall.

    how cold do the mudponds of niigata get?

    don't blame cold water for your koi's poor health.

  5. #15
    Tategoi
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    Check out the news story related to this koi-disaster. I think these guys need alot more than a few new koi. My response to this was "WHAT?????"

    Jan 5, 2006

    Wiring blamed in fish kill
    Arboretum loses nearly 300 koi after pump fails
    by ROB KUNDERT


    A faulty wire to a water pump likely killed a prized collection of fish at the Dubuque Arboretum and Botanical Gardens.

    An estimated 250 to 300 Japanese koi, a specially bred species of carp, were found floating in the pond on Monday, according to Bob Buelow, a longtime volunteer at the facility adjacent to Marshall Park.

    Arboretum volunteers do not believe the pump problem was intentional.

    "There were no footprints around the pond to indicate vandalism," Buelow said.

    The nonfunctional pump was first discovered on Dec. 17 and might have been out of order for three days, he said. Without the flow of fresh water, the pond froze over, cutting off surface air and sunlight to the multicolored fish.

    "They got it back running, and it took another day or so before (the ice) opened up, but we figured that's what eventually did them in," Buelow said.

    Surface-air contact is critical for such ponds with live fish, according to Bryan Hayes, a fisheries biologist with the Iowa Department of Natural Resources in Manchester. But the snow was just as big a factor in the demise of the fish.

    "The biggest problem with snow cover is it screens out the sunlight, prevents light penetration. The plants and algae can't produce oxygen," he said.

    This year has been particularly hard, because of the early snow cover on the ice, Hayes said.

    "Even though the snow is gone, we aren't getting the light penetration for oxygen production," Hayes said.

    With the number of fish, in a pond estimated at 100 feet by 50 feet and 8-feet deep, the oxygen would be easily consumed, he said.

    One of Buelow's concerns is the toxins created by the dead fish, and the prospect of having to drain the pond and start over.

    "From my standpoint, I don't see a problem," Hayes said. "Come next spring, I'd check the oxygen level, and they should be ready to restock."

    Critters seem to be willing to help clean up, said fellow volunteer Jim Schwarz.

    "Mink and raccoon are pulling the carcasses out. We've had trouble with mink this summer," he said.

    The arboretum's fish collection started with the donation of seven koi several years ago for the pond in the Japanese Garden, Buelow said.

    "We must have had boys and girls, because a couple of years later we had oodles of fingerlings," he said.

    He hopes contributors once again will help start the collection.
    ChrisC

  6. #16
    Sanctimonious Ass - BANNED
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    Help and donations offered

    Jackie Allsup with the Eastern Iowa Pond Society is a Koi Health Advisor and was contacted regarding this. Greg above is an experienced koi keeper who has offered assistance not just fish. Indeed, they need more than just more fish and that is what many in the koi community are offering.

    thanks

  7. #17
    Jumbo gregbickal's Avatar
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    Many of us have had pumps go out, so this is something that could happen to any of us. The Blank Park Zoo in DesMoines has a mud pond with some 500+ large koi and they keep a hole open with a large airstone. I think they would run into problems pretty fast if it quit also.

    I am Zone 4b, I think Dubuque is also. Ponds here are covered in ice from Mid-late November to Mid March. Thats at least 4 months. Water temp is below 50 for 6 months. Those are extreme conditions for koi to endure.

    So, what suggestions can be made to help this situation out (besides an entire redesign). Redundant Air pumps on separate circutes. Lower stocking rate. Pond as clean as possible going into fall.

  8. #18
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Duh . . .

    the FIRST thing they need, Greg, is to have someone in charge who has experience, intelligence and heart. Sounds as though it's been a 2nd rate operation for far too long.

    I'm sure that someone like you would straighten that mess out in short order. In fact, why don't you and your club "take it over" as a project? Can that be done???

  9. #19
    Nisai
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    Oct 2005
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    they say it was oxygen, but with 1000 gallons per fish and only three days w/o a pump, I would be suprised if lack of O2 killed these fish. I suspect (although I don't know) that this pond did not have proper filtration and/or was not properly cleaned before winter and when the top froze over the build up of ammonia and toxic gasses made quick work of the fish.

    I also agree that donations should be made to help rebuild this pond, but not until a properly trained staff is in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.
    Hello! My name is Endigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!

  10. #20
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    if the problem is, as many experts agree, that koi can't survive in cold water, the first thing to do is install a heater. koi club donations could pay the utility bill.

    then, since cold water kills koi, have everyone in the club who does not have a heater in their own pond donate their koi which would die over the winter anyway.

    i guess anyone in colder climes who can't afford to heat their pond can't have koi. why do they even try?

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