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Thread: Kohaku with secondary hi

  1. #1
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    Kohaku with secondary hi

    A friend asked me to post some pictures of his 15 inch Ogata, nisai kohaku. He's had the fish maybe 9 months and it was approximately 8 inches when he bought it. Please look at the pictures and give me some input but don't ask me for a bunch of water parameters asI don't have them for his pond. I will say that I've been to his house a number of times and I don't see any indications that he has water quality issues. He shows fish and I've not seen any skin issues on his fish that were placed in the show.

    Here are the shots.

    Mike Pfeffer
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kohaku with secondary hi-troy-kohaku-1.jpg   Kohaku with secondary hi-troy-kohaku-2.jpg  
    Mike Pfeffer
    Northern Midwest ZNA show
    June 19 - 20, 2010
    Season's Garden Nursery
    Fishers, IN

  2. #2
    Tosai
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    I had similar problem with my Sakai and maruyama male kohaku. Think this has to be something to do with gene or too much color food. I don't feed color food myself. Anyway, waiting for response on whether those can be removed.

  3. #3
    Jumbo
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    That's Koi,...

    Tosai are about $150 to $400,... Nisai are somewhat more expensive,... Sansai are even more expensive,... Yonsai are,... A large part of the equation is every year a Koi grows it proves itself,... and part of what we pay for in larger older Koi is the reduction of risk of imperfections,... a Koi that grows large and is perfect, or near perfect is rare. What we are seeing in the pics is simply imperfections arising,... which happens in Koi. When we buy a tosai for $200 we accept that we are taking a "gamble" on its future. Sometimes we win BIG, sometimes we break even,... and sometimes we draw a bad card.

    Every Koi has a window of prime beauty,... and that Kohaku looked its best at tosai. One of the aspects that draws us to Koi is the "what if" factor,... always searching and hoping for perfection,...

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

  4. #4
    Sansai GazKoi's Avatar
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    What a great answer Brady bang on the button i think i will have to save up now

  5. #5
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    What kind of food?

    It could be genetics, but just as easily from hi-coloring food type in a young koi. It doesn't seem to take much to cause secondary hi in young, developing fish.

  6. #6
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    I don't think he's feeding color food. Brady- that is a good input. My friend and I bought about 10 small fish in the $50 - $100 range. Of the six fish I bought, I hoped that maybe one would turn out and I'd get rid of the other five at show auctions or wherever. Well, one of my friend's fish developed in to an extremely nice showa. Unfortunately, he moved it inside for the Winter and it jumped out of the show tank and died. As you say, that's koi. One of the small kohaku I selected- the hi is really breaking up. It's not showing signs of losing it all but it is very poor quality hi. Another showa is still developing and it's too early to tell. But with the small investment, it's fun watching them.

    Mike Pfeffer

  7. #7
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Don't know what your water temps are like but I have couple that have hi that comes up like that in the winter. It fades away as soon as spring hits.
    Koi-Unit
    My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07
    ZNA Potomac Koi Club

  8. #8
    Oyagoi
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    Part of what you pay for when you buy a nisai also is the pond environment(water parameters are important) and feeding regimen of the breeder for that time period. Those things are factors but won't override dna as Brady pointed out. Looking at that, the concentration seems to be intense in certain areas, around the fin, and featheringly light in others, so it is a small possibility of being from either water paremeters or color enhancers, some foods have it in them even though it does not say 'enhancer' on it. You have to read the label and know what to look for.

    I would cut enhancers, get ph to 7.0-7.2, and feed lightly for a while, see what happens. If the enahncers are playing a role, switching to food you know for sure has none will eliminate it. If nothing happens in a month or two, then it's what Brady said. imho, you are looking at about a 15-20% chance it's enhancers, and a 80-85% chance it is what Brady said. The red looks like it is running deep and bleeding. Could be too low or too high ph playing a factor as well.

    I had a kohaku years ago that looked similar, I cut enhancers and it improved, but it still had a few spots left from the adventure that were probably just what Brady said.

  9. #9
    Jumbo l113892's Avatar
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    Assuming it's something in the diet, we are experiencing Winter in these parts and this koi will be receiving no food for 3 months. If this is food related, it should definately go away, probably within a month, don't you think?

  10. #10
    Oyagoi
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    I would check the ph level too, but the idea with overloaded enahncers is just that. The way to cleanse them is to flush them. I am not sure if no feeding will slow the flushing or speed it, since to flush something you have to flush it with something, and the metabilism will be slowed. So I don't know the answer to that, it may actually take longer to flush in the winter. Good question though. I bet Mr. Neaves would know the answer to that. Maybe Brady has an opinion on that?

    The thing most pros will tell you to look at is where the beni is appearing, on the edges of the scale or center, to know if it is weak beni or enhancers. I think that is a good rule of thumb but not an absolute, as I have seen enhancers cause it to rise in the center of the scale first.

    There are a few aritcles online that talk about that issue of beni development, if I run across them this week I will post links for you.

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