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Thread: Indoor Pond, please critique

  1. #11
    Jumbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglegeorge12
    How much sun will this be getting, what is the roof made of?

    If it gets no direct sunlight, you will have trouble with color fading. With little sunlight it will do better, and if you had a shower you might not need UV at all.
    The outer 8 feet of the sun room roof will be glass, as well as the walls. I want maximum sun in the winter to heat the concrete and water, then radiate it back into the house after dark. So in the winter most of the pond will be in the sun.

  2. #12
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    One thing I want to clairify, the most inportant thing to me is absolutely clear, pristeen, water. I want this pond to look like a swimming pool with fish. This is why I decided to go with the Sacramento Koi Advantage system. Steve claims his bead and glass filter will give the clearest water possible. And he offers a one year money back satisfaction garentee. I have talked with several of his customers and they all have been happy with his system. So because of this I will install his system according to his recomendations.

    Two 1/4 horse pumps plumbed in series going 1st to the bead filter, then to the glass filter. He says you need 1/2 horse power to buck the back pressure of the two filters with out losing a lot of flow. He said two 1/4 horse pumps in series will run cheaper than one 1/2 horse pump.

    He also says you don't need anything infront or behind his system which I don't agree with. Thats why I'm going with two vortex filters, one for each bottom drain, before the pumps, and two moving bed filters after the advantage filters to aid with o2 levels and bio filtration.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadmaster
    Hi birdman,

    But it was actually something else in your design that made me type this reply.
    Did you realise that if your moving bed filters are pump fed, the water leaving the MB by gravity / overflow will not flow uphill from there to the waterfall that I believe will be higher than the pond level...... Or you will have to raise the top of the MB filters to the hight of the waterfall.

    Cheers,
    Hans
    Thanks Hans for your thoughts. Yes I had thought of that. I want my filter room to be 6 feet below water level 1st since it will be roofed I will have walking room, but also to keep it as low as possible as to not be seen out the glass sides of the sun room. I will have to put some of the miss. tanks on stands to get them at the proper height, higher than the water fall. I'm sure It will all fall in place when I start digging.

  4. #14
    Oyagoi bekko's Avatar
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    You should get your ideas in front of Art Lembke, aka KOIDOC. He built an indoor pond a year or so ago and did an extensive show-and-tell on the experience. He brought up several considerations which are not usually a concern with outdoor ponds. I do not see those threads in the KB archives so maybe we did not read it here. Look for him at NI or elsewhere.

  5. #15
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekko
    You should get your ideas in front of Art Lembke, aka KOIDOC. He built an indoor pond a year or so ago and did an extensive show-and-tell on the experience. He brought up several considerations which are not usually a concern with outdoor ponds. I do not see those threads in the KB archives so maybe we did not read it here. Look for him at NI or elsewhere.
    Dr. Lembke built an indoor pond and wrote a wonderful article about indoor pond on KoiUSA mag - Check it out...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinh
    Dr. Lembke built an indoor pond and wrote a wonderful article about indoor pond on KoiUSA mag - Check it out...
    Yes, I have that issue and have read it several times.

  7. #17
    Sansai Arthur's Avatar
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    Vortex Efficiency

    Steve,

    A 2' Vortex can only handle a maximum of 2000 gph before the settlement efficiency goes out the door. A ¼HP pump should deliver around 5000 gph, so it would need a 4½' Vortex to provide good settlement.

    In other words, running 5000 gph through a 2' Vortex will not provide much settlement at all.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur
    Steve,

    A 2' Vortex can only handle a maximum of 2000 gph before the settlement efficiency goes out the door. A ¼HP pump should deliver around 5000 gph, so it would need a 4½' Vortex to provide good settlement.

    In other words, running 5000 gph through a 2' Vortex will not provide much settlement at all.
    Good point Arthur, I was thinking today I don't need nor really want 10,000 gph running inside. To much flow for the size of the pond and to nosiy I think.

  9. #19
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur
    Steve,

    A 2' Vortex can only handle a maximum of 2000 gph before the settlement efficiency goes out the door. A ¼HP pump should deliver around 5000 gph, so it would need a 4½' Vortex to provide good settlement.

    In other words, running 5000 gph through a 2' Vortex will not provide much settlement at all.
    Actually the diameter should not be a direct corelation of the GPH, the circumfernce would yeild a truer corelation...along with cylinder height...
    IF a 2ft diameter chamber handles 2000 gph, a 3ft diameter may process 5000gph in the same manner provided the depth is exponentially increased as well.

    I don't have the math skills to figure it out exactly anymore and don't care to go back and relearn. But the circumference would be a better simple measurement for determining the size needed. I THINK.

  10. #20
    Sansai Arthur's Avatar
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    Vortex Efficiency is proportional to tangential velocity

    Luke,

    A Vortex's efficiency is inversely proportional to the water flow tangential velocity in the Vortex chamber: slower spin = better efficiency.

    The depth of the chamber has nothing (well not much) to do with the settlement efficiency. Take a look at the waste management Vortex systems: wery large and shallow cylinders.

    The spin velocity is proportinal to the radius of the chamber the flow enters, regardless of depth. The velocity of the water entering the Vortex chamber is what imposes the spin velocity. So, 3000gph coming in through 4" pipe is not the same as 3000gph coming in through 6" pipe. This is why larger drain pipe into a Vortex is better for sedimentation in the Vortex (and the pipe :-), that is why the larger the drain pipe, the more often you have to flush it!

    Someone several years ago suggested 350gph per square foot of surface in the Vortex chamber. I did verify through experimentation that this is a good number. I prefer 300gph per square feet myself though.

    There really is nothing very scientific about this but experimentation does help.

    PS I do like your posts and whish I could have that level of humor after a full day's wotk :-)
    Arthur

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