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Thread: Ki Showa or not

  1. #1
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Ki Showa or not

    Hi

    Last month I posted about the likelyhood of a showa with ki, rather than hi, retaining the yellow on NI. This "ki" showa, (Australian Bred) is now 5cm. I have now taken a photo, so that those with more experience than me might suggest its future. And maybe in the future we be able to make a comparison.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Don't know. ...I've seen 2" Kohaku fry with Hi that looked about like that.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Might be a throwback. Orginal showa were very different from present day showa. Orginal showa looked somewhat like Ki utsuri in the early 20th century. These early showas had goshiki like(greyish) shiro and striped fins. Next change was accomplished by breeding to asagi which helped produce motoguro marked fins. In 1964 Tomiji Kobayashi crossed a Male Yogozen Kahaku with a female showa to produce a new style showa with a large crimson red pattern. It also had a brighter white ground without netting deep wrapping sumi that forms motoguro and a zig zag pattern on head.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    that's different enough to toss in the little mudpond marked "different" and keep for another year.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi
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    Where did you learn that from ray? I like to read things that cover the history of the bloodlines and gosanke development and would be interested in reading whatever you did to get that info.

    We should have an interesting facts thread on those things some time. As long as it doesn't turn into a knowledge pissing contest.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Ray

    I agree. Showa are my favorite fish. Would love to learn everything I could about their development from the very beginning. Definitely would help one to understand why they do some of the things they do as they mature. It would also be interesting to see what breeders have done/currently doing to improve their line.

    Mike

  7. #7
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Cool Very Interesting

    Definitely interesting enough to see what time in the mud may have to offer. As to JG & Mike's idea of a new thread to expand our knowledge base, lets go for it. Better to pass it on than piss it away

  8. #8
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Koi History & Genealogy has become a fascination for me. I have searched for every book/koi magazine I can find that talks about the development of koi variaties from the beginning. Early on none of this was written down and it has been passed down as oral history/stories. No doubt some of the stories were kept secret to protect the creation of a new variety.

    I have also recruited Megumi Yoshida who is a 3rd generation koi breeder turned koi dealer to help me with interviewing some of the oldest koi breeders in Niigata. Some of them had grandfathers breeding koi in the early part of the last century. I send over several questions and get back seperate answers from several breeders. Try to piece together the diffent parts of the puzzle to see what might be the real story. Not easy but fun.


    Various versions of the orginal showa parents are:
    Hi Utsuri crossed with Shiro Usuri - popular but not likely
    Ki Utsuri crossed with Hi Utsuri - Occasional/Isa Hijame beleives this
    Ki Utsuri crossed with Ki Utsuri - one response
    Ki Utsuri crossed with a unique Kawarimono that was mostly white with a few red spots on it's side sort of like a trout. - Few responses (This is one I favor because there had to be lots of ki and hi and Shiro Utsuri crosses early on and only one breeder developed showas. Also a showa has a hi "pattern" which would be more likely to occur when a parent koi had a hi pattern)


    I attached a color photo taken in the early sixties in Niigata of what was decribed as a good example of a showa. Sure wish color photography has come into common use much sooner. Better stop here.

  9. #9
    Sansai adreamer2's Avatar
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    kinda reminds me of a midorigoi..... Has a greenish tint...

  10. #10
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Hi

    Unfortunately photography can lie about colour. Orange can look red for example. I do wonder of this is the case with this photo. I wonder if the colour on the photo is close to reality or not. Either way, you can the "ki"-like colour and the "goshiki" like base. An interesting koi in stark contrast to todays showa.

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