Speaking of Koi Food (Dainichi)

[Brad Koikichi]

Dainichi Koi Food is planning on adding Lymnozyme into its line of Koi Foods

Now to the best of my knowledge Lymnozyme needs to be refrigerated as it is a live product. Now they are planning on feeding this to Koi to combat aeromonas Funny thing here is that KoiZyme the Original Formula Product formulated in 1999 and or Lymnozyme the Original Name Product (not the original product) can co exist in the same body of water. I am no Scientist but I can tell you that cooking at 212 degrees in the extrusion process will render this product useless .

Now for a few questions and concerns about using product in Koi Food

1) Have there been any studies conducted regarding direct feeding of Lymnozyme.i.e. How does it affect the fish ?

http://www.koizyme.com/HowLymnoworks.html

2) On what scientific basis do they think adding Lymnozyme to the food will improve the water quality in the same way it does by treating the water itself.

3) Is the Lymnozyme going to be able to survive being sprayed into the koi food ? I seriously doubt it !

4) Have any shelf life studies been done to determine how long the product would be viable when sprayed on the food ?

5) How do they determine what levels of Lymnozyme should be used in fish food ?

6) Can it be shown that the Koi's digestive system can tolerate direct fed Lymnozyme ?

7) What bacteria are they going after INSIDE the fish???" Is it aeromonas? Is aeromonas in the digestive track?? I thought it got in the organs and blood stream when it went systemic.??


I am no Scientist but I can tell you that cooking at 212 degrees in the extrusion process will render this product useless .

I spoke with Tom Holder of Koizyme regarding this and He said he would not think of trying to add this product to Koi Food ! It would not work !

In Asking, Tom said would NEVER think of allowing any manufacture to put KoiZyme in a food. It would do nothing......therefore "snake oil" concept. Also who did the studies on all this for Dainichi?
They should post those results BEFORE we can think of feeding this to a quality koi. The bacteria in Lymnozyme could possibly upset the digestive track?? Anyone do those studies?????

Sounds like "ready......shoot......aim" to me!!!


The Original Product "KoiZyme" contains no chemicals, no medications and no antibiotics of any kind. It is a proprietary, organic preparation of non-pathogenic bacteria, enzymes and micro-nutrients, and it works on the established principle of an accepted scientific process widely known in commercial aquaculture management called Competitive Exclusion.

[B.Scott]

Brad,
I tried Lynozyme when it first came out. I started developing so many cases of mouth rot I stopped. Never had the trouble afterwards. At least two of my friends in different parts of the world independently told me the same story.. Coincidence? I hope so.

As to competitive exclusion, there is more than one train of thought on this. Read this for more info
http://www.koiquest.co.uk/CE.htm

B.Scott

[dick benbow]

Brad what's your take on Hikari Saki food?

Scott, I knew of many beginners with underfiltered, overstocked ponds that benefited from the product. Especially in the spring, when koi were getting active and beginning to show raised scales and holes everywhere.

for readers of this thread who may not know Duncan, Scott's web site attachment while quite detailed
is written by a very knowledgeable individual and someone's judgement you can
take seriously. Duncan has out a very good book on koi health that's less than a year old. His work with the koi industry and hobbyists is well documented and respected.

[Brad Koikichi]

Hikari Saki food is a very very good food thou a bit pricy ! I like it and the color food seems to be quite potent so I blended it with wheat germ.

KoiZyme the original product is a great benefit to the koi hobby !!! Lymnozyme which is a different product I cannot comment on as the formula's are not the same .

The point I am trying to make is if you dry out a live bacteria like Lymnozyme or KoiZyme it is a dead product it cannot come back to life by reconstitution .

I see this as Snake Oil . when added to Koi Food.

So the question is "what bacteria are they going after INSIDE the fish???" Is it aeromonas? Is aeromonas in the digestive track?? I thought it got in the organs and blood stream when it went systemic.??

[Brad Koikichi]

[QUOTE=B.Scott]Brad,
I tried Lynozyme when it first came out. I started developing so many cases of mouth rot I stopped. Never had the trouble afterwards. At least two of my friends in different parts of the world independently told me the same story.. Coincidence? I hope so.

I agree on the coincidence part as I have seen remarkable recovery of ponds and fish health by hobbiest using KoiZyme. I cannot speak for the Lymnozye as it is Not the Same product

I use KoiZyme myself as it is benificial to the koi hobbiest.

[Nishi8]

If you look at the price of Hikari Saki and Dianichi premium food, you will find that the Hikari Saki is actually a better buy. The problem with Hikari Saki is that it comes in such a large size. If you take a 33lb. bag of Hikari Saki and divide the price per pound it is only about $9.84 a pound(based on $325.00 a bag). Dianichi premium at 11 pounds is about $100.00, so it is $8.78 a pound.Wouldn't you rather have a product, for a $1.06 more a pound, that is made by a company that has the knowledge and ability to create a premium product.
As far as putting something like Koizyme into a food, you are right, it will do absolutely nothing to help your fish. It is a waste. They are probably just adding it as a gimmick to boost sales. Most people don't know that if you add any beneficial bacteria to your pond regularly, you will reduce your load of pathogens. This is the theory of competitive exclusion. If you were to add a good quality bacteria to aid in the processing of your ammonia it would do the same thing as Koizyme. Why not add bacteria to oxidize your waste instead of bacteria that reduces levels of aeromonas? If you waste levels are lowered., you are actually going to the root of the problem, rather than using a bandaid.

[B.Scott]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brad Koikichi I agree on the coincidence part as I have seen remarkable recovery of ponds and fish health by hobbiest using KoiZyme. I cannot speak for the Lymnozye as it is Not the Same product I use KoiZyme myself as it is benificial to the koi hobbiest.

Brad if this is the stuff Tom Holder sells then Lymozyme, Genesyz and Koizyme are all the same product I believe.

B.Scott

[gregbickal]

Quote: about $9.84 a pound

My God, I could be eating Prime Rib for that kind of price And I thought .50 a pound was expensive....

[Brad Koikichi]

The digestive track in koi, as well as any animal, is a balancing act. Introducing bacteria that is not known for its benifits to aid in digestion is irresponible when there has not been any studies done on it.

Are 'they' suggesting the bacteria in Lymnozyme acts like antibiotics when taken orally?????

I've never heard that Aeromonas resides in the digestive track?

Are they suggesting (sounds like it ) that Lymnozyme bacteria, when taken orally by the koi, will somehow reduce pathogenic bacteria in other parts of the koi's body??? Boy, show me the studies on that one !!!!!!!!!!!

When I asked Tom Holder if he would consider allowing a another food manufacture to use KoiZyme, he said "that will NEVER happpen". He said Koizyme would have no benifical effect by being taken orally, and in fact, might have an adverse effect on the digestive track. He said putting KoiZyme in food makes as much sense as putting Ultimate water conditioner or AmQuel in food. He also mentioned that if there was a benifit to it, he would have introduced that food long ago. He said he would not embarrass his company (or himself) by allowing his KoiZyme to be used that way.

I think Dainichi needs to release some studies on all of this BEFORE they ask us to feed it to our 'living jewels'. Or, are we just supposed to take their word on it????? Not with my pets.

[Brad Koikichi]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott Brad if this is the stuff Tom Holder sells then Lymozyme, Genesyz and Koizyme are all the same product I believe. B.Scott

Lymozyme and Koizyme are no longer the same product and have not been for a while . I am enquiring about Genesyz as that is the British and Euro Trade name . KoiZyme is of the original formula manufacture . Lymnozyme is the original trademarked Name. Tom Holder only sells KoiZyme