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Old 02-10-2006   3 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
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Selecting Tosai, pointers...

To all the experts on our board, tosai season is upon us. How about sharing some pointers on picking good tosai.
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Old 02-10-2006   #2 (permalink)
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How many lessons do you need?LOL. See you at Russ's place. I'll give you your 18th and final lesson-LOL
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Old 02-10-2006   #3 (permalink)
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one can never learn enough. i'll always be a student of the hobby and this is not only for me
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Old 02-10-2006   #4 (permalink)
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Here, here!
I don't think I'll be at Russ' but I will be going to the All Bay Area Show where there will be lots of tempting tosai. So.... Does anyone have any pointer? Thanks in advance.
I can use all the pointer I can get as my last 3 picks were pretty sad. They're cute but pure pond mutts!

Barbara
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Old 02-10-2006   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koiczar
How many lessons do you need?LOL. See you at Russ's place. I'll give you your 18th and final lesson-LOL
come on Koiczar, I'm as a newbie ready and always love to learn how to select tategoi... once who posted a question does not mean for himself...tell us a little bit or at least give us a hint, will you, master;-))
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Old 02-10-2006   #6 (permalink)
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Dinh

I was only giving Erwinsan a bad time. If you're at Russ's place I'll be glad to teach. Hope to see you there!!
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Old 02-10-2006   #7 (permalink)
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Tosai is like looking for truffles, the best ones are always hidden...and it is always good to tag along a friend with you....As for pointers, I think we all have are own little routine....tell you mine in a bit....
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Old 02-10-2006   #8 (permalink)
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I remember James P has posted some very excellent details about tosai/tategoi selection sometime back. I remember it was one of the best post from James..
Heard of James P. will do a seminar on this topic at All Bay Koi Show as well....

--Dinh
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Old 02-10-2006   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dinh
I remember James P has posted some very excellent details about tosai/tategoi selection sometime back. I remember it was one of the best post from James..
Heard of James P. will do a seminar on this topic at All Bay Koi Show as well....

--Dinh
As far as I know you the best at picking tosai Dinh...your the Gardena Baby GC of 2004... What are your secrets to picking tosai?
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Old 02-11-2006   #10 (permalink)
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The only real experts on selecting tosai are their breeder. Remember they have already set aside their best babies to grow another year and they are not for sale in most situations.

That said here is a copy of a article I have written on buying baby koi. I give a few seminars each year on buying baby koi using lots of photo's and also using live baby koi as examples. Try to locate a koi club meeting/event giving a koi buying seminar that you can attend to view the examples I tried to describe in this article.

HOW TO SELECT BETTER BABY KOI

by Ray Jordan



With the right bits of knowledge and experience you can greatly increase your chances of buying baby koi that have good potential to develop into very nice adult koi and perhaps even win a major award at a koi show. Try to attend a koi seminar where someone more experienced can show you up close the differences in lower and higher quality koi. It is not easy to describe these differences in an article or even using a few photos. It is also a good idea to find someone more experienced to help you select better koi. Here are a few suggestions to keep in mind when you go shopping for that new baby koi you dream of becoming a major award winner.



Buy Healthy Koi – Look at any potential purchases very closely. Be sure they swim normally and act normally (school with the other koi). They should be able to easily hover in mid water without sinking to the bottom or floating to the surface. Be sure they are injury and disease free and do not have obvious defects like torn/deformed fins, bent bodies or deformed heads or mouths.



Buy Better Koi – One of the most common questions I hear is what is the difference between say a $20 koi and a $200 koi. The cost difference ”should” be based on the additional quality and the potential of the koi. It also has to do with it’s variety, rarity, and perceived chances to become a better koi as it grows. A very tiny percentage make it through the selection process to be sold as less expensive $20 baby koi at about one year of age – perhaps 5%. Even less make it into the potential show quality group starting at approximately $100 as baby koi maybe 0.5%. Most koi are sold at this age and are five to eight inches in length. A $20 koi will be lower quality in color and have less refined patterns than more expensive baby koi that costs $100 and up. Many baby koi will lose their bright colors at an early age. Less expensive koi are to be enjoyed right now as they usually fade and become speckled as they grow larger.



Buy the Red - Bob Spindola (who was one of the U.S. koi pioneers and a wonderful koi teacher) always advised koi hobbyists to “Buy the Red.” In baby koi this is the most important color to evaluate and also the most fragile. Look at baby koi very carefully. Red is usually weakest near the tail of the koi. Look for baby koi with very even, shiny, and thick red color. You want to see the same color/thickness of red all over the koi body. Baby koi with fragile red will have lighter and weaker red showing at this stage. Some clues to poor red are scattered small bits of stray hi separated fro the major pattern. One exception to this is the red on the koi’s head. Since there are no scales on the head of a koi. The red on the head of younger koi looks redder. Look at the edges of the red on the body. The front edge nearest to the head will appear blurred. This is because the first red scales in the pattern can be seen through the thin/white-clear scales in front. If you cannot see this avoid the koi the red is very shallow and weak. Also avoid if front edge of pattern is messy looking with some areas showing more or less underlying rows of scales. You want one or two rows but you want this to be very even all across the front pattern edges. Another clue is weaker thinner red will appear to have a white edge around/between the scales especially if you gently bend the koi to spread the scales a little. Also some higher quality koi will have a very dark red center to each scale. This is desirable as long as the red centers are even and found in all scales in all areas of the koi. Weaker and thinner red often fades and breaks up leaving you with a poor quality and almost worthless fish. Also be aware that the best baby koi will not have a very crimson dark red hue. Baby koi of the highest quality will have a shiny and dense but lighter orangy or persimmon color red. As the koi matures and grows the red with thicken and darken over the next several years as additional coats of red thicken. Baby koi with very dark or deep red are likely males and/or colored artificially by being fed color enhancers in their food. This type of forced red color is very brittle and tends to fade quickly. (Bob called this Bye Bye red)



Buy Fewer but Higher Quality Koi – I often see newer koi hobbyist try to play the numbers game. By this I mean they take their koi budget say $200 and buy ten(10) $20 koi hoping that they have increased their chances of getting one or two nice fish when grown. Actually the opposite is true. By buying $20 koi they have almost zero chance of having nicer koi when they get larger. Remember these koi are already priced by the experts as “cut flowers” buy quickly they are cute and pretty now but will likely also fade shortly. Also from a water quality perspective if you buy a bunch of $20 baby koi you will end up in a year or two with a bunch or large cheap koi that have not improved but have gotten larger and will put a huge demand on your pond and filter system as their biomass increases 100 fold over a year or two. Baby koi increase in weight by ten times their 2nd year and can quickly overwhelm your ponds filter system and crash your water quality. Poorer water quality causes them to lose their color even faster and as you add more and more cheaper koi each year trying to hit the $20 koi lottery you will eventually over load your pond and filter and koi diseases and deaths will begin to occur.



Sadly if you had learned from your mistakes and bought a few high quality koi at some point they will have little chance to show their “quality” when kept in a pond overcrowded with poor quality koi and as a result poor water quality. In fact they will likely be the first ones to get sick/die.



In summary, there are subtle (to beginners) differences in lower and higher quality baby koi. It is much smarter to spend your koi budget wisely and buy just one or maybe two koi of better quality each year. Go to baby koi buying seminars or find a more experienced koi buddy to help you select your first higher quality baby koi and help you understand how to tell the differences with lower quality koi.
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