What do you think is this?

[thomasysl]

Hi all koi expert

DO you this this showa is infetced with Hikkui or Epistylis?

regards
Thomas

[koiczar]

I think your fish has major issue(s)! I see definite signs of hikui on the shoulder. I also see signs of what I think could be something else on the head region. There are cyst-like lesions on top of the head and I also see swelling above/behind the right eye area. Do you have a quarantine system? Can you heat the water this fish is in slowly to approx. 72f? Do you, or someone you know, have a microscope? If so, I would not hesitate to take a few samples of the head area to see just what that is. Scope, diagnose, correctly treat, heal. That's the proper equation for success.

[kingkong]

Not an expert but have some practical experience with this darn Hikkui.
First of all get that koi away from the population of koi. I will explain why. I believe Hikkui to be an infectious disease that IS contagious among other koi. It is caused by a virus, bacterium and or a pathogenic organism. No one knows what.
I left a highly infected expensive Sanke in the pond population thinking it was a genetic problem or a sunburn (still could be). Well 6 months later, Hikkui is a generic problem on the rampage making itself at home on 8 koi out of 30.
I would:
.Remove promptly from others
.Keep all nets and hands sterile
.Treat it with a great deal of respect
Do you:?
.Have a pond in the tropics with sun exposure
.Have a open or closed system
.Find Hikkui on 1% or more on fish population
.Could this fish have been boxed in a shipment long enough to receive amonia or other burns at one time

[marco]

Hi Thomas, welcome on board, could you gic=ve us some more informations about your showa and pond ?

That will help us to give you better advices.
From how long do you own that koï ?
How old is he ?
Did you had already some problems with him or with others koï before ?
Did you introduce some others koï recently ?
Water temperature, now and in the last 2 month
Did you already try some treatments ?
Stock and pond volume
Where are you living ? That will give an idea of season and clima.
Thanks, Marco

[thomasysl]

Hi all

Thanks for the responds.

To Kingkong
Do you:?
.Have a pond in the tropics with sun exposure
Yes, 40% of the pond is exposed to sunlight from 9am-4pm. Lots of sting algae floating in the water, but the water is very clear.

.Have a open or closed system
Open

.Find Hikkui on 1% or more on fish population
There are 2 or 3 more kohaku with less severe hikkui

.Could this fish have been boxed in a shipment long enough to receive amonia or other burns at one time
I have this showa for over 2 years, this symptom only happeend about 6 or 7 months ago

To Marco
From how long do you own that koï ?
over 2 years.

How old is he ?
about 4 years old

Did you had already some problems with him or with others koï before ?
Yes, 2 or 3 more kohaku are hacing less severe hikkui (light white patch on the Hi)

Did you introduce some others koï recently ?
The last is about 4 months ago

Water temperature, now and in the last 2 month
Havent really tested the temperature before, as I am staying in Malaysia, temperature in thenrange of 24-33C all year long.

Did you already try some treatments ?
My fish dealer has put blue liquid(methlene blue) on the "wound" many times before. Only some improvement, but the sympton is back after a while.

Stock and pond volume
Pond volume including filter is about 30,000L or 6600 u.s gal and stock about 28.

Where are you living ? That will give an idea of season and clima
Malaysia, hot and humid all year long

regards
Thomas

[kingkong]

Conditions that seem to be similar:
.Pond in the tropics...me Florida, full sun 70% of surface
.Open system, 20,000 US gallons, 35 kois average 20 inches
.More than one out-break occuring seems always on the hi and head and shoulder area
.Newest koi would be 8 months past, had hikkui prior to that
.Hikkui outbreak 6 months after purchase on best Sanke, this koi (was) the primary carrier

[marco]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar I think your fish has major issue(s)! I see definite signs of hikui on the shoulder. I also see signs of what I think could be something else on the head region. There are cyst-like lesions on top of the head and I also see swelling above/behind the right eye area.

Hi Thomas, I agree with Koiszar about hikui, and I first though that the cyst-like lesion were virus infections.
But virus infection that gives such problems can be the Pox virus (only in cold water) and KHV so if you don't have mortality, forget about them.

The epistylis couls be an explanation, so best thing to do would be to look under a microscope. Epistyllis are often carried by trichodina, so if you see some trichodina, the epistylis wont be very far..
If you don'y have any idea of how they look like, just tape the name on google, you'll have a lot of picture and they look both really nice.
If you don't have any microscope, ask your local koïdealer.

I would use some salt to help the osmosis exange and maybe some propolis on the skin if you can clean the skin after after using some anesthetic.
Using salt you'll also treat most of the trichodina (if you have some) but for treating epistylis you will nead higher concentration.
Anyway if you find epistylis, that means that you have a big problem with your water quality.
Let us know...
Marco

[saratogatan]

I like macro's suggestion. to me there is excess slime on the head area. However, it does not look like koi pox to me, as pox usually show up in the leading edge of the koi body, like th pec fin, and there is no sighn of pox on the pec fins.

so, up the salinity, check the slime under scope.

stan

[BobinCA]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingkong Not an expert but have some practical experience with this darn Hikkui. First of all get that koi away from the population of koi. I will explain why. I believe Hikkui to be an infectious disease that IS contagious among other koi. It is caused by a virus, bacterium and or a pathogenic organism. No one knows what. I left a highly infected expensive Sanke in the pond population thinking it was a genetic problem or a sunburn (still could be). Well 6 months later, Hikkui is a generic problem on the rampage making itself at home on 8 koi out of 30. I would.

Any reaction here to KingKong's observations????
Would most of you agree that a fish with Hikui has to be removed from the general population?

Bob

[KoiCop]

There is no consensus on whether hikui is genetic, viral, environmental or contagious. Some say it is treatable. Welcome to the world of hikui.

IMHO, the best website for more information is Duncan Griffiths Koiquest & Koi-Unleashed:

http://www.koi-unleashed.co.uk/

On left-hand column, click on "Hikui"