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Thread: Shimi on show fish, good or bad?

  1. #1
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Shimi on show fish, good or bad?

    There has been alot of debate on judging of shimi on fish being shown.

    1. shimi on smaller fish seems to be more a deduction, being the size class is more competitive.

    2. shimi on bigger fish seems to be a minor deduction, since the size of a fish in size 6 and 7 is the major points.

  2. #2
    Tosai
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    Besides the points that Tony has said, shimi has lot of things to do with lineage and water as well, in my opinion.

    1) If Koi at younger age (1-5 or 6 years old) develop shimi, that tells you that Koi has "weak" bloodline; therefore, its quality is inferior to ones without. It does not matter how hard your water is, quality Koi at young age should be able to maintain their characteristics. Of course, as Koi ages it's more susceptable to harsh factors in the environment and start having shimi and even Hikui.

    2) One must also appreciate that it is VERY VERY hard to keep shimi free from a Kohaku if you raise them in the US. We particularly here have very hard water. However, strong Kohaku should be able to fight it off for a long time. I do have my fair share of having shimi in my few Kohaku. However, for a couple of top quality ones (Hiroshima Sakai and Dainichi) that I have, I have no probblem with them although they are 11+ years old.
    I make this statement after I observe how shimi will affect my quality big Kohaku. However, one thing is certain, if you love to keep Kohaku here in the US, it's a matter of time for you to deal with its shimi.

    Hope this help,

    Duke

  3. #3
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Duke

    So, tell me, what do you look for in a young kohaku that might have the potential to evade the "shimi" issue? What about the effects of melanin within the genetic make-up? Now with more breeders, including Sakai Hiroshima, Sakai Isawa and Dainich all playing with infusion of Magoi blood into their lines, how can one know when selecting the fish that it has the potential to not get shimis? Also, do you think that because the fish in Isawa and Hiroshima are bred and raised in harder water than say, Niigata, could they be less susceptible to shimi's when they arrive here?

    Mike

  4. #4
    Tosai
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    Hi Mike,

    It will be really hard to say whether or not by introducing magoi bloodline back will make our shimi problem worse because I haven't experienced raising a Kohaku or Sanke with magoi blooline in them. If I have to guess, I would say yes. However, I can say this much whatever degree of shimi problems that hobbyists dealing with in Japan will be magnified several times for us in the US. It's simply I think our water is not as "soft".

    However another point that I'm trying to make is with "top" grade Koi, they seem to overcome the shimi problem in our water much better. Let me give you example: I keep my 90cm Dainichi Kohaku (11 yr-old) in my pond for almost 5 years; no shimi. My 83cm Sakai Hiroshima Kohaku (15 yr-old) lives with me since 1999; no shimi. On the other hand, I bought one beautiful 2-year old Ginrin Kohaku from a local dealer with unknown bloodline within 6 months in my pond big shimi spots came up. And very interestingly, in 2002 I bought a 92cm 5-step Oyama Kohaku (9-yr old), she had shimi spots within about 6 months in my pond. And I had to get rid off her for that reason because I couldn't seem to control her shimi problems. And you can see: same pond, same water, different Koi with different results.

    "Stable" bloodline has a lot to do with shimi problem that's what I'm saying.
    Also, in my very humble opinion, if my Kohaku starts to have shimi when she's 2 years old, I can forget about her show career.

    Hope this help, Mike.

    Duke

  5. #5
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Duke

    This helps confirm my longtime suspicions concerning exactly what you are talking about. Different bloodlines, different results. Of course, within all bloodlines there are varying degrees of quality of offspring as well. So, would you say that Dainichi and Sakai Hiroshima or Matsunosuke or Hamamatsu have certain oyagoi that can be, say, more "trusted" than others to throw off better quality kohaku for our water conditions? So far, Ive tried Sakuma, Ogata, One orange beni Maruyama and a Yagenji - all with no luck - all developed shimi. Now I have a kagura beni Maruyama and 2 kagura beni Torazo and a kagura beni Hoshikin. I'll see how it goes with these breeders stocks.

    Thanks for the feedback

    See you Tomorrow

    Mike

  6. #6
    Jumbo Bern's Avatar
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    From a judging perspective a shimmy is a colour demerit. How important it is depends on the opposition. In the UK koi are judged on their merits first. Demerits are used to seperate fish of equal quality in the first three positions in their category.

    In many cases decisions can be reached on merits alone, if not then come the demerits on bodyshape and skin quality. If all is still equal we assess colour. If all is equal but one has a shimmy i.e. an unwanted additional colour. Then the shimmied koi loses. But, if the koi without the shimmy has poor pattern edges or inconsistent colour and the shimmied koi doesn't, then the koi with only a shimmy will win.

    rgds
    South East Koi Club


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