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Thread: pls comment on this showa and sanke

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    Dec 2005
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    pls comment on this showa and sanke

    hi..

    what do you guys think about this sanke and showa??...it's tosai and around 15cm....and what about that hi on the sanke...why it's fade away??...can it be red again ??...if yes, how??...can using a food with spirulina helps ??...or is it because of water quality ??...

    thank you
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pls comment on this showa and sanke-sanke.jpg   pls comment on this showa and sanke-showa.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Kusuma: Please tell us about your water conditions, climate, and source of the koi...breeder(s). Also, what water conditioners, treatments, foods, etc have been used in the past 2 months? At first, I thought it obvious that the Sanke was simply fading out to Bekko, but the Showa looked pretty good. When I enlarged the pics I saw that the Showa also has a fading Hi Kanoko effect. There are always some Sanke in a spawn that fade to Bekko, and not rare to have a Showa turn Shiro Utsuri especially as tosai, but to have one of each at the same time fading in this way does not seem right to me. Really bad luck? Or, something else?

  3. #3
    Jumbo Regenmeneer's Avatar
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    Kusuma,

    did your koi grow very fast, and are they inside or outside, water temp?

  4. #4
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Let's say your water conditions are prefect for the moment. The beni on both fish are not very good. Beni regardless of shade of red should be thick and consistant from the tip of the nose to the ozutsu. Fading beni will never come back first off. Even if you "Doctor" the beni with color food, it is a temporary fix and not a long term one.
    Check your water, especially the PH...maybe give us a brief discription of your pond setup.

  5. #5
    Tosai
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    Dec 2005
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    hi..

    thanks for all your reply..

    i live in jakarta, indonesia, which the climate now is alot of rain...nearly everyday is raining...the temp is about 30 degree celcius...the water condition the last time i check (last week) is fine...all the measurement is still within a normal range...but i will check it again today, ang give you guys the andwer tomorow...i bought this koi from the dealer here in jakarta, and the fish is imported from ogatha koi farm in japan...i just bought it last saturday...and it's fine when i bought it...for your information, i don't have a pond right now...the fish is in a fiberglass tank...1.2m(w) x 2m(l) x 1m(d)...and there are 9 fish in a tank range from 15cm - 35cm...the filter is 30% from the tank....and my tank is outdoor...get 2 - 3 hours of sunlight everyday...i used ogatha wheatgerm for food everyday twice...and ogatha performance once a week....but in the last 2 days...i use 1 x wheatgerm and 1 x performance per day....

    all my other fish is fine, never have this problem before...but i am only a beginner...i started keeping koi 6 months ago...i know that i must have a real pond...i will build one as soon as possible...

    i hope the information is enough and please give me some pointer wether i am doing a right thing or not??....i will post my water perimeter as soon as i measure it...thank you...

  6. #6
    Nisai
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    Dec 2003
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    Jakarta, Indonesia
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    hi kusuma,

    the recipe to create a shiromuji out of kohaku or bekko out of sanke is to put the fish under extreme stress i.e water with high amonia level + high temperature + small over crowded tank for a week or two. if the genetic is weak, the transformation will happen in less than a week time. I have tried it before and it works for some fish (the genetically weak one) especially the small sized fish, but it does not work for other fish (I guess the genetically strong one). This setup can even make a shiro lose its sumi, again the genetically weak one I guess.

    I understand this batch of Ogata just arrived to some dealer's place in Jakarta less than two week time? which means they should still be in a high stress condition due to extreme change of climate and water parameter as well. The next few days, you bought them and placed them in your FG tank which has another different set of water parameters, another stress trigger. And they are small size tosai. This could explain the fading color.

    What a discouraging experience with imported fish, especially since you have paid a premium price if compared to local bred fish.

    anyway, you may want to put them in a quarantine tank/aquarium and try to keep the tank in a shady cool place with lots of oxygen. do not feed in the mean time and change 80% of the water everyday.

    good luck.

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Kusuma: I'll venture a guess, but that is all it is: If your tank is above ground, the water temperature will be approximating the air temperature of 30C. (For the conversion-impaired, 30C is about 86F.) If the sun is shining on the tank during the afternoon, the water temperature could be rising well above 33C (over 92F). These would be very high temperatures for koi. Additionally, if you are having frequent rain storms, there will be dramatic fluctuations in temperatures. Consider that these fish were likely imported from Japan recently and kept in shaded in-ground ponds. In Japan the water temperatures were likely in the 20-22C range, or a bit lower. Your dealer probably was not above 23-24C. After the stress of shipment and being in a dealer's inventory, they have gone to another stressful situation at another extreme of their endurance range. The loss of Hi has been observed as coinciding with stressed conditions. If you can find a way to cool the water and keep the temperature stable, you may find there is improvement. ...Like I said, this is a guess.

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    Dec 2005
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    hi..

    this is my water reading :
    GH - 14 degree dH
    Ph - 7.5
    Nh4/Nh3 - 0.1 mg / L
    Cl - 0.01 mg / L
    NO2 - 0.1 mg / L


    hopefully it's only because of stress...

    yes koilvr, it's really dissapointing experience for me, i tried to save some money to buy a better quality fish but i end up with this...i hope it's only due to stress..

  9. #9
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    10
    hi ..

    my water reading :
    Gh - 14 dh
    Ph - 7.5
    Nh4/Nh3 - 0.1 mg / L
    Cl - 0.01 mg / L
    No2 - 0.1 mg / L

    what do you guys think?

    yes koilvr, it's really been a disapointing experience for me...i saved money to buy a better quality fish but i ended up with this ...i hope it's only due to stress...

    i will try to put the fish on a quarantine for a while...thank you anyway for all your help...

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